Really dodgy wiring
Discussion
Ooh I do like that extension lead. I should really dig out all my photos and make a little shop of horrors thread.
Some of my highlights being 3 fuse boards, the installer of the 3rd pulled the earth wire linking the first and second board out of the first and into the 3rd, so the 2nd and 3rd were now earth-linked but not earthed to anything! On this he had rotten rubber wiring feeding chrome sockets mounted on full stainless steel splashbacks and worktops. The whole shebang could go live at any moment. Made my blood run cold and I've seen some bodge in my time.
Another "widowmaker" was a 4 ring electric hob on plug tops. One would have blown, so he had two leads both with plugs on the end - but remove either one at a time and it would be backfed so live on the prongs!
There are people in this world that frankly want their hands chopped off.
Some of my highlights being 3 fuse boards, the installer of the 3rd pulled the earth wire linking the first and second board out of the first and into the 3rd, so the 2nd and 3rd were now earth-linked but not earthed to anything! On this he had rotten rubber wiring feeding chrome sockets mounted on full stainless steel splashbacks and worktops. The whole shebang could go live at any moment. Made my blood run cold and I've seen some bodge in my time.
Another "widowmaker" was a 4 ring electric hob on plug tops. One would have blown, so he had two leads both with plugs on the end - but remove either one at a time and it would be backfed so live on the prongs!
There are people in this world that frankly want their hands chopped off.
That's fairly rough, sadly not that uncommon as I also had a four way adapter powering my hob ignition, extractior fan, and over. Wired into the back of the nearby socket, so unable to isolate from the (single) ring main which covered the whole house bar the conservatory (which was a lollipop off an old shower feed) all of which I found when my housemate swamped the hob causing the ignition spark to click for about two hours till it dried out aided by putting a frying pan on a low heat next to it! Annoying and crap, but not necessarily dangerous, may well be the same as for you. All RCD protected.
I fitted a switched fused connection unit next to the socket, wired the 4way adapter onto that, and called it fixed.
You are advised to get a survey, and any survey such as a homebuyers will highly other surveys that they feel should be done. Typically gas, elec, damp, structural,etc. However it still remains only somewhat clear which are the economical and or pertainant surveys to have done.
Having bought two houses and almost sold the first I don't expect to do it again till I am double my age and thinking of retirement, so as you said, rarely something your experienced at!
Daniel
I fitted a switched fused connection unit next to the socket, wired the 4way adapter onto that, and called it fixed.
You are advised to get a survey, and any survey such as a homebuyers will highly other surveys that they feel should be done. Typically gas, elec, damp, structural,etc. However it still remains only somewhat clear which are the economical and or pertainant surveys to have done.
Having bought two houses and almost sold the first I don't expect to do it again till I am double my age and thinking of retirement, so as you said, rarely something your experienced at!
Daniel
mickyc79 said:
Just a quick question for any legal minds on here...
I bought a house about 4 years ago...just getting round to removing the old kitchen and we've come across some absolutely shocking wiring which wouldn't have been possible to see in a survey before buying.
Had an electrician out to quote for fixing and he was shocked at the downright dangerous and lethal nature of some of the wiring. He advised to take it further, but with who?
The seller was in the house for 16 years before us, so they would have had the kitchen installed. It could be that they didn't know what the kitchen fitter had done as all of the dangerous stuff could only be seen once the kitchen was removed.
I've got a feeling that i'm going to have to stump up for repairs and making good, but as none of this would have been visible or possible to see without ripping out kitchen then we couldn't possibly have picked up on it before we bought the house.
Who, if anyone, can i contact?
Many thanks
The survey wouldn't of be able to pick it up as you said, pay a elecy to make good and move on.I bought a house about 4 years ago...just getting round to removing the old kitchen and we've come across some absolutely shocking wiring which wouldn't have been possible to see in a survey before buying.
Had an electrician out to quote for fixing and he was shocked at the downright dangerous and lethal nature of some of the wiring. He advised to take it further, but with who?
The seller was in the house for 16 years before us, so they would have had the kitchen installed. It could be that they didn't know what the kitchen fitter had done as all of the dangerous stuff could only be seen once the kitchen was removed.
I've got a feeling that i'm going to have to stump up for repairs and making good, but as none of this would have been visible or possible to see without ripping out kitchen then we couldn't possibly have picked up on it before we bought the house.
Who, if anyone, can i contact?
Many thanks
mickyc79 said:
Thanks for the replies. Fair amount of bawbags on here think it's perfectly acceptable to sell dangerous houses to families with kids to live in.
Can your kids access spaces that someone doing a survey can't even see? If not then don't bother playing the "think about the children" card.mickyc79 said:
It's was our first purchase so unfortunately, like some on here, wasn't an expert in buying houses, so wasn't versed in all of the process and had maybe a niave thought that people were honest and wouldn't sell death traps on the open market.
This is the people who had lived there for years, without dying? The ones who probably knew no more than you about the condition of the wiring behind there?mickyc79 said:
I'm sure if someone sold you a car and had deliberately hid some very dangerous defects that could kill you and your family you'd all be very happy about it.
Again with the "deliberately hid" aspect, if you can prove that then you may have a case. But you probably can't. Because they probably didn't.Ultimately any house with modern RCD protection on the sockets are safe enough that you could pretty much stick a finger in a plug and still be fine. The wiring was clearly rubbish but as has been suggested, you were going to need some/most/all of it redoing for the new kitchen anyway.
When you buy a house, you buy on price, location and structural integrity plus, of course, flood risk. Unless you pay for a full plumbing and electrical survey, you will only get a cursory overview from the surveyor, which only tell you what you could already have seen. That makes the Scottish Homebuyer’s Pack a better way of doing it.
After I bought the house before this, I re-wired it myself and got an electrical sign off (not sure if that is possible now). I armed myself with the IEE wiring regs valid that time, followed it to the letter, with added pre-caution where feasible and sensible.
In your case, you will need a full quote from an electrician to re-wire and sign off.
When you move you need to recognise there may be extra to pay for; roofing, electrical, plumbing, damp considerations, etc. On that last point; damp-proof courses, modern plaster, etc., are a distinct no-no in an old house - that needs breathable lime plaster and paint, clay paint is superb for this.
So, as I said if you bought for the location, then you need to allow extra for these issues.
By the way, when I sold our house, I gave the buyer a complete list, with photos and diagrams and specifications of what I had done, even down to the paint make and colours.
On PH we make such an issue of service history for cars, yet demand so little from house sellers. Crazy.
After I bought the house before this, I re-wired it myself and got an electrical sign off (not sure if that is possible now). I armed myself with the IEE wiring regs valid that time, followed it to the letter, with added pre-caution where feasible and sensible.
In your case, you will need a full quote from an electrician to re-wire and sign off.
When you move you need to recognise there may be extra to pay for; roofing, electrical, plumbing, damp considerations, etc. On that last point; damp-proof courses, modern plaster, etc., are a distinct no-no in an old house - that needs breathable lime plaster and paint, clay paint is superb for this.
So, as I said if you bought for the location, then you need to allow extra for these issues.
By the way, when I sold our house, I gave the buyer a complete list, with photos and diagrams and specifications of what I had done, even down to the paint make and colours.
On PH we make such an issue of service history for cars, yet demand so little from house sellers. Crazy.
Steve H said:
mickyc79 said:
Thanks for the replies. Fair amount of bawbags on here think it's perfectly acceptable to sell dangerous houses to families with kids to live in.
Can your kids access spaces that someone doing a survey can't even see? If not then don't bother playing the "think about the children" card.mickyc79 said:
It's was our first purchase so unfortunately, like some on here, wasn't an expert in buying houses, so wasn't versed in all of the process and had maybe a niave thought that people were honest and wouldn't sell death traps on the open market.
This is the people who had lived there for years, without dying? The ones who probably knew no more than you about the condition of the wiring behind there?mickyc79 said:
I'm sure if someone sold you a car and had deliberately hid some very dangerous defects that could kill you and your family you'd all be very happy about it.
Again with the "deliberately hid" aspect, if you can prove that then you may have a case. But you probably can't. Because they probably didn't.Ultimately any house with modern RCD protection on the sockets are safe enough that you could pretty much stick a finger in a plug and still be fine. The wiring was clearly rubbish but as has been suggested, you were going to need some/most/all of it redoing for the new kitchen anyway.
When I was about 8, and plugs did not have insulated pins, I got a 240v shock. I assure you I am very much alive. As I said re-wire with full RCD protection.
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/guides-an...
king hell, it’s armchair expert day!
We bought a near 300 year old house.
We accepted that the wiring, plumbing, etc might have "character".
When turning off a lighting circuit left a bulb that would still switch on and off, I got my stepdad (retired sparkie) to have a poke. He found and repaired 2 crossed circuits in the lighting, but there's a 3rd... somewhere... we compromised on putting them all on the same breaker.
In the meantime, if I do any vaguely electrical work, it's simple: the main RCD switch goes off and I work by torch.
What I didn't expect, and what sent me very angry, was when our main fuse blew, about 8 years after we moved in.
Actually, it turned out it didn't blow... the paperclip it had been replaced with had shifted ever so slightly and so was no longer making contact!
I was fuming - so dangerous, so much current... and it's not even as if the electricity people charge you to replace it!
We accepted that the wiring, plumbing, etc might have "character".
When turning off a lighting circuit left a bulb that would still switch on and off, I got my stepdad (retired sparkie) to have a poke. He found and repaired 2 crossed circuits in the lighting, but there's a 3rd... somewhere... we compromised on putting them all on the same breaker.
In the meantime, if I do any vaguely electrical work, it's simple: the main RCD switch goes off and I work by torch.
What I didn't expect, and what sent me very angry, was when our main fuse blew, about 8 years after we moved in.
Actually, it turned out it didn't blow... the paperclip it had been replaced with had shifted ever so slightly and so was no longer making contact!
I was fuming - so dangerous, so much current... and it's not even as if the electricity people charge you to replace it!
bimsb6 said:
The father in law fitted a shower in his en suite and wired the shower unit to a 13 amp plug with a socket at ceiling height within the shower cubicle ! He couldn’t see a problem with it .
Alucidnation said:
Some electric showers can be, albeit with the correct type of termination.
Umm, I don't think this is a question of whether the shower's >3kW or not...TooMany2cvs said:
bimsb6 said:
The father in law fitted a shower in his en suite and wired the shower unit to a 13 amp plug with a socket at ceiling height within the shower cubicle ! He couldn’t see a problem with it .
Alucidnation said:
Some electric showers can be, albeit with the correct type of termination.
Umm, I don't think this is a question of whether the shower's >3kW or not...defblade said:
We bought a near 300 year old house.
We accepted that the wiring, plumbing, etc might have "character".
When turning off a lighting circuit left a bulb that would still switch on and off, I got my stepdad (retired sparkie) to have a poke. He found and repaired 2 crossed circuits in the lighting, but there's a 3rd... somewhere... we compromised on putting them all on the same breaker.
In the meantime, if I do any vaguely electrical work, it's simple: the main RCD switch goes off and I work by torch.
What I didn't expect, and what sent me very angry, was when our main fuse blew, about 8 years after we moved in.
Actually, it turned out it didn't blow... the paperclip it had been replaced with had shifted ever so slightly and so was no longer making contact!
I was fuming - so dangerous, so much current... and it's not even as if the electricity people charge you to replace it!
Bloody hell! The electricians weren’t up to much in the 1700s then? We accepted that the wiring, plumbing, etc might have "character".
When turning off a lighting circuit left a bulb that would still switch on and off, I got my stepdad (retired sparkie) to have a poke. He found and repaired 2 crossed circuits in the lighting, but there's a 3rd... somewhere... we compromised on putting them all on the same breaker.
In the meantime, if I do any vaguely electrical work, it's simple: the main RCD switch goes off and I work by torch.
What I didn't expect, and what sent me very angry, was when our main fuse blew, about 8 years after we moved in.
Actually, it turned out it didn't blow... the paperclip it had been replaced with had shifted ever so slightly and so was no longer making contact!
I was fuming - so dangerous, so much current... and it's not even as if the electricity people charge you to replace it!
I never knew they had paper clips back then.
Pica-Pica said:
In your case, you will need a full quote from an electrician to re-wire and sign off.
This, when buying an older house you need to accept that the wiring is likely to have some issues. Having discovered some problems, you need to do the whole house to current standards for peace of mind.
Had a new kitchen fitted in our 10 year old flat. Given the relatively young age of the property, the electrics were all in decent nick.
With a bit of YouTubing and advice from an electrician mate, I managed to swap all plug sockets and switches to new brushed steel ones, wire in the hob, oven and extractor and fitted new downlighters under the wall cabinets too.
Also did the plumbing too.
All made easier due to the fact that the new units only moved by around 100mm from their old positions.
Quite satisfying doing some of the work myself.
With a bit of YouTubing and advice from an electrician mate, I managed to swap all plug sockets and switches to new brushed steel ones, wire in the hob, oven and extractor and fitted new downlighters under the wall cabinets too.
Also did the plumbing too.
All made easier due to the fact that the new units only moved by around 100mm from their old positions.
Quite satisfying doing some of the work myself.
mickyc79 said:
Just asking as electrician said I should take it further, but you are all right, no recourse avenue at all. The risk of buying a house I guess... Not to worry, kitchen Fitter will rectify all previous sins and make it all safe!
The person i bought my house from assured me it was rewired around 10 years before I bought it so (stupidly) I didn't bother with an electrical survey...Unfortunately when I lifted the floorboards to add a socket I found a hotch potch of lead-sheathed VIR cable, manky T&E and a LOT of JBs that were hidden.
The "full rewire" comprised nothing more than a new consumer unit.
Caveat emptor unfortunately, the rewire wasn't on the contract, it would have been my word against their's so I just shrugged it off... Oh, and stopped forwarding their mail.
Be wary of a kitchen fitter doing electrics, many can't certify so you could end up waiting in for their mate to show up, or you might just end up with shonky electrics and no certificate.
To reduce the problem - note that I use 'reduce' - you need to close B&Q, Homebase, Toolstation, Screwfix etc & restrict the purchase and use of ANY item that could be used in home modification to government licensed professionals.
DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
Edited by paintman on Sunday 15th July 19:08
paintman said:
To reduce the problem - note that I use 'reduce' - you need to close B&Q, Homebase, Toolstation, Screwfix etc & restrict the purchase and use of ANY item that could be used in home modification to government licensed professionals.
DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
Can I drive my house to the MOT station with an expired MOT?DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
Edited by paintman on Sunday 15th July 19:08
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