Really dodgy wiring
Discussion
paintman said:
To reduce the problem - note that I use 'reduce' - you need to close B&Q, Homebase, Toolstation, Screwfix etc & restrict the purchase and use of ANY item that could be used in home modification to government licensed professionals.
DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
The more you clamp down on DIY work on fixed wiring, the more incidents you get with dodgy extension leads and the like. DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
I did once see a 'special offer' pack at bnq which was a neon screwdriver, roll of black insulating tape, and a strip of the cheapest chocblock you have ever seen. None of the staff saw the issue with it.
Wilco's and bnq sell flex by the meter, which is great for rewiring a lamp with gold flex say, but combined with other the above can lead to interesting results!
Daniel
defblade said:
When turning off a lighting circuit left a bulb that would still switch on and off, I got my stepdad (retired sparkie) to have a poke. He found and repaired 2 crossed circuits in the lighting, but there's a 3rd... somewhere... we compromised on putting them all on the same breaker.
In the meantime, if I do any vaguely electrical work, it's simple: the main RCD switch goes off and I work by torch.
I found that ours had the upstairs and downstairs ring mains joined when I was fitting a new socket. I'd turned the breaker off for the circuit I was working on, but everything was still live. I later found that most of the upstairs wasn't even on the ring main anyway, it was all taken off a single fused spur in the kitchen.In the meantime, if I do any vaguely electrical work, it's simple: the main RCD switch goes off and I work by torch.
Not to mention the cable to the shed outside, straight off the main, no separate fuse, with a join in the middle which was a choc block connector wrapped in a sandwich bag and buried directly in the soil.
Houses are fun.
V8 Fettler said:
Bell wire for lighting circuits used to be a favourite, could be easily tucked away out of sight.
My Aunties house when she moved in had a built in bed and surround thing with reading lights on each side of the bed, attached to the headboard that was part of one of those over bed storage/bedside table ensembles that were popular in the 80s. They were wired by speaker wire going into the back of regular plug sockets on each side of the bed. Thin wire presumably live all the time. At least most of the time when people bodge things with extension leads and 4 way sockets the whole thing starts with a 13amp plug with a fuse in it, so there is a limit to how badly it can go wrong. Most countries don't have that.
GadgeS3C said:
paintman said:
To reduce the problem - note that I use 'reduce' - you need to close B&Q, Homebase, Toolstation, Screwfix etc & restrict the purchase and use of ANY item that could be used in home modification to government licensed professionals.
DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
Can I drive my house to the MOT station with an expired MOT?DIY of any description would have to be banned.
And an annual MoT type thingummy for your property to ensure it complied with any changes in legislation & any deficiencies would have to be rectified by the current owner before they were allowed to resume occupancy.
Edited by paintman on Sunday 15th July 19:08
Back in the day, what we now call 'bell wire's was allowed for mains use, certainly still common to see it on old lamps and the like, and lighting didn't have an earth, so even once disallowed it wpuld have been seen as no worse that using flex for a ring main or hedge trimmer cord for moving a light switch, which I had in my house.
I also had some new colour used for a spur, brown for neutral (guess it as seen as a match for black) and blue for live in the back of one socket. Only thing was it wasn't long enough, so he joined some old colour on behind the skirting so by the time it came up in the new socket it looked ok!
Found a lot out about the house wiring stood on his new doorstep holding a months worth of his mail!
Daniel
I also had some new colour used for a spur, brown for neutral (guess it as seen as a match for black) and blue for live in the back of one socket. Only thing was it wasn't long enough, so he joined some old colour on behind the skirting so by the time it came up in the new socket it looked ok!
Found a lot out about the house wiring stood on his new doorstep holding a months worth of his mail!
Daniel
OP - I discovered this after my dishwasher conked out last week.
That blue neutral wire had charred black, so this had obviously been going on a while. A lose connection on the neutral could be human error, things happen. However, what really, really boiled my p1ss is that when I came to disconnect it I found that it was being ran from the 'upstairs sockets' fuse so I got a lovely little zap after 'only' isolating everything downstairs. We've only been in year and the chap who sold the house to us was a builder by trade that had completely renovated it.
I've now checked every socket with a socket tester, checked every fuse switch and will be paying for the some re-wiring. If I see the chap in the local I may have words.
That blue neutral wire had charred black, so this had obviously been going on a while. A lose connection on the neutral could be human error, things happen. However, what really, really boiled my p1ss is that when I came to disconnect it I found that it was being ran from the 'upstairs sockets' fuse so I got a lovely little zap after 'only' isolating everything downstairs. We've only been in year and the chap who sold the house to us was a builder by trade that had completely renovated it.
I've now checked every socket with a socket tester, checked every fuse switch and will be paying for the some re-wiring. If I see the chap in the local I may have words.
I've also found a switch behind one of the cupboards which i didn't think did anything, but have discovered that it's connected to my boiler in the loft! Only realised after my hot water wasn't working and couldn't understand why...tried flicking this hidden switch again and my boiler sprung back to life....WHY!?!?!
Thing is, the switch is on a wall thats being removed, so it'll have to be dealt with. Looks like it's the only way of isolating the boiler too, so will need to get a new switch fitted to this too, which could mean taking apart some of my recent loft conversion...
Thing is, the switch is on a wall thats being removed, so it'll have to be dealt with. Looks like it's the only way of isolating the boiler too, so will need to get a new switch fitted to this too, which could mean taking apart some of my recent loft conversion...
Often the rings are split by area rather than floor, because unlike lighting which are both run in the ceiling of the lit room, typically ground floor sockets are run down from the ceiling and the first floor up from the floor. Because often on the ground floor you have solid floors and or tiles/laminate etc even if it's a suspended floor.
Expect the switch in the back of a cupboard was for the immersion heater, so become available at the same time as fitting the boiler.
The garage in my old place was wired to the old cooker feed, high power cable near the rear of the house, saves running the SWA* back to the CU in the front room.
Daniel
Expect the switch in the back of a cupboard was for the immersion heater, so become available at the same time as fitting the boiler.
The garage in my old place was wired to the old cooker feed, high power cable near the rear of the house, saves running the SWA* back to the CU in the front room.
Daniel
My house is currently undergoing a full rewire at the moment. The house was (is) bit of a project, hadn't been on the market in the last 60 years and had also been empty for quite a while. Due to the condition of the place, it was always assumed that everything would need to be ripped out and start again.
The electrics were a popular feature of the survey. Most of the wall switches were broken, hanging off the wall and considered dangerous as wires were exposed. The real fun started when the floor came up to start the re-wire. There were numerous live junction boxes under the floor which were just kind of hanging around. While the age and general condition of the property made me assume it would all be less than perfect, it was the DIY elements that were downright dangerous.
The electrics were a popular feature of the survey. Most of the wall switches were broken, hanging off the wall and considered dangerous as wires were exposed. The real fun started when the floor came up to start the re-wire. There were numerous live junction boxes under the floor which were just kind of hanging around. While the age and general condition of the property made me assume it would all be less than perfect, it was the DIY elements that were downright dangerous.
mickyc79 said:
Thanks for the replies. Fair amount of bawbags on here think it's perfectly acceptable to sell dangerous houses to families with kids to live in.
It's was our first purchase so unfortunately, like some on here, wasn't an expert in buying houses, so wasn't versed in all of the process and had maybe a niave thought that people were honest and wouldn't sell death traps on the open market.
For the record, we weren't offered an electrical survey so didn't know this was a thing.
I'm sure if someone sold you a car and had deliberately hid some very dangerous defects that could kill you and your family you'd all be very happy about it.
I have arranged for an electrician to come out and fix it all as part of my kitchen rebuild, and I'm paying for it myself. I was just curious as to where homebuyers stand in these types of circumstances. I now consider myself educated.
You are making large assumptions with little and possibly no evidence to support them. There is a big difference between carelessness and dishonesty. Nothing you have posted indicates that anyone has been dishonest. At some unknown point, someone may have been careless, but it is unlikely that you have any practically enforceable right to redress arising from this.It's was our first purchase so unfortunately, like some on here, wasn't an expert in buying houses, so wasn't versed in all of the process and had maybe a niave thought that people were honest and wouldn't sell death traps on the open market.
For the record, we weren't offered an electrical survey so didn't know this was a thing.
I'm sure if someone sold you a car and had deliberately hid some very dangerous defects that could kill you and your family you'd all be very happy about it.
I have arranged for an electrician to come out and fix it all as part of my kitchen rebuild, and I'm paying for it myself. I was just curious as to where homebuyers stand in these types of circumstances. I now consider myself educated.
You are perhaps relatively young, and perhaps no one told you what sort of thing to expect from things such as house ownership. Anyway, no need to get grumpy. Get the wiring fixed. If you really want to spend time and money on the issue (and so maybe become more grumpy, not less), look carefully at what statements, if any, were made by the vendor of the house as to the electrical installation. If, however, the vendor had a half decent conveyancer acting for him or her, then the vendor will not have given an unconditional warranty about the state of electrical installations, especially those not easily checked.
IAAL, but IANYL.
Houses cause problems.
Old houses have the same issues and anything bought second hand and with plenty of things to go wrong. From what I've seen of others experiences, new houses are rairly much better, but you've paid a premium for it so you feel even more aggreved with each fault.
Daniel
Old houses have the same issues and anything bought second hand and with plenty of things to go wrong. From what I've seen of others experiences, new houses are rairly much better, but you've paid a premium for it so you feel even more aggreved with each fault.
Daniel
This habit of mind of feeling aggrieved about things and always looking for someone to blame does appear (generalising a bit) to be something of a generational thing. Some (not all) of us oldies tend to assume that stuff happens, and that in life you have to deal with stuff. Some blame my profession for creating this "who can I sue" mindset, but I think the phenomenon has several sources, although the stupid decision by government to allow conditional fee agreements (whilst also more or less scrapping civil legal aid) has not helped.
TooMany2cvs said:
IIt may well be that the previous kitchen fitter didn't even do anything wrong, legally speaking - Part P building regs was introduced in 2005. Before then, any chimp could do wiring with no comeback. Do you even know who fitted it?
From memory, Part P was brought in after an MP's daughter was electrocuted due to a shoddily fitted kitchen (IIRC it was due to a towel rail that was screwed in near/into a cable that wasn't properly protected).In our house I've found a number of dodgy items. Not half as bad as the OP's kitchen.
Worst was 7 devices spurred off one socket. Including two rear lights and an "extension lead" into the loft.
I do have a couple of unmarked/unknown switches. A couple of (live) wires coming out of the wall over the fireplace (hidden behind the mirror) etc.
Manners2001 said:
OP - I discovered this after my dishwasher conked out last week.
That blue neutral wire had charred black, so this had obviously been going on a while. A lose connection on the neutral could be human error, things happen. However, what really, really boiled my p1ss is that when I came to disconnect it I found that it was being ran from the 'upstairs sockets' fuse so I got a lovely little zap after 'only' isolating everything downstairs. We've only been in year and the chap who sold the house to us was a builder by trade that had completely renovated it.
I've now checked every socket with a socket tester, checked every fuse switch and will be paying for the some re-wiring. If I see the chap in the local I may have words.
If you had carried out safe isolation really, you wouldn’t have got a surprise, but then, anyone can ‘do electrics, right?That blue neutral wire had charred black, so this had obviously been going on a while. A lose connection on the neutral could be human error, things happen. However, what really, really boiled my p1ss is that when I came to disconnect it I found that it was being ran from the 'upstairs sockets' fuse so I got a lovely little zap after 'only' isolating everything downstairs. We've only been in year and the chap who sold the house to us was a builder by trade that had completely renovated it.
I've now checked every socket with a socket tester, checked every fuse switch and will be paying for the some re-wiring. If I see the chap in the local I may have words.
Also, there is nothing at all wrong with running spurs from whatever rfc you like.
Oh, and MK products are shyte.
Alucidnation said:
If you had carried out safe isolation really, you wouldn’t have got a surprise, but then, anyone can ‘do electrics, right?
Also, there is nothing at all wrong with running spurs from whatever rfc you like.
Oh, and MK products are shyte.
Hence the reasoning behind the half hearted legislation on wiring. But then,there's ONE saying, that applies in life, but more so to electrics- "NEVER ASSUME". The purpose of test kit ( EVEN the simple Neon driver) is to prevent fingers getting into a live circuit. Also, there is nothing at all wrong with running spurs from whatever rfc you like.
Oh, and MK products are shyte.
One other idiom worth working to is a modification of a biblical saying. "In an old house ,there are many cavities. I go to prepare a place for you, IF you fail to look for live cables lurking there".
As Alucidnation said- IF you'd carried out even a basic isolation ( shut down the ring you thought was live, then test, and shut down till circuit was dead) you'd have found out what ring the circuit was powered from.
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