French Driving Laws
Discussion
magooagain said:
Most Frenchmen in my village have had more than one drink by 11 am,just this morning I was drinking with two French mates in thier cellar at 10.30 am.
The police are used to people having an early morning drink.
Edited to add that I didn't drive again until 6.30 pm to go to the local bar!
I've just seen the photo in your profile. Any connectIon? The police are used to people having an early morning drink.
Edited to add that I didn't drive again until 6.30 pm to go to the local bar!
Edited by magooagain on Friday 20th July 21:51
Doofus said:
magooagain said:
Most Frenchmen in my village have had more than one drink by 11 am,just this morning I was drinking with two French mates in thier cellar at 10.30 am.
The police are used to people having an early morning drink.
Edited to add that I didn't drive again until 6.30 pm to go to the local bar!
I've just seen the photo in your profile. Any connectIon? The police are used to people having an early morning drink.
Edited to add that I didn't drive again until 6.30 pm to go to the local bar!
Edited by magooagain on Friday 20th July 21:51
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If you break the law in England, you'll pay a fine. If you break the law in France, you'll also pay a fine. If you don't have the resources to pay it immediately, they will take you to a bank because otherwise, you'll run away and avoid paying altogether. When I was stopped, I'd been doing 147 in a 90, and that's confiscation territory. My car was not emblazoned with LM24 decals, and I spoke politely, in French. They wrote my speed up as 139, which took me back into fine and temporary ban levels, and I was able to pay the fine there and then (because powerfully built, Red Bull etc). I think they acted with proportionality.
I also think it's worth noting the number of people apparently needed to trim hedges or repair roads in France. I believe that something like 60% of the employred population work in the public sector, and they all need jobs. Standing in the middle of bugger nowhere with a motorbike and a pair of mirrored shades holding a radar gun is a job, after all.
The UK is not averse to 'cynical' speed traps, let's be honest. I'm not entirely sure what the French are apparently doing that the UK doesn't already do.
Just come back from France on the 19:00 fastcat thingy & this thread prompted me to look:
Documents - check (has this been mentioned yet?)
Spare bulb kit - check
First aid kit - hmm, two plasters & some antihistamine cream - check
Hi-viz - one plastic poncho - check/oops
Triangle - oops
GB sticker - oops (how the hell did I forget that one?)
Breathalyser - don't be bloody ridiculous!
Documents - check (has this been mentioned yet?)
Spare bulb kit - check
First aid kit - hmm, two plasters & some antihistamine cream - check
Hi-viz - one plastic poncho - check/oops
Triangle - oops
GB sticker - oops (how the hell did I forget that one?)
Breathalyser - don't be bloody ridiculous!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If the French police didn't take fines on the spot, but sent a demand through the post, how many foreign motorists do you think would actually bother to pay? I can fully understand why they do it. I've been on the receiving end, and was treated more harshly than I have been for speeding in the UK, but those are the rules. I knew of them befoe I went, and I made the choice to go.As you have said, we don't have to agree, and we don't. In fact, I might well agree with your sentiment, just not your rhetoric.
Doofus said:
If the French police didn't take fines on the spot, but sent a demand through the post, how many foreign motorists do you think would actually bother to pay? I can fully understand why they do it. I've been on the receiving end, and was treated more harshly than I have been for speeding in the UK, but those are the rules. I knew of them befoe I went, and I made the choice to go.
As you have said, we don't have to agree, and we don't. In fact, I might well agree with your sentiment, just not your rhetoric.
There have been repeated threads on ph along the lines of "I have received a ticket from abroad, do I have to pay?"As you have said, we don't have to agree, and we don't. In fact, I might well agree with your sentiment, just not your rhetoric.
It must be much cheaper, more efficient and probably far more effective to make people pay on the spot. I have no issue with it at all.
I've driven in France for over 40 years and had very little trouble with the police, never been fined, despite taking a very lax attitude to speed limits when I think I'll get away with it.
We go over a few times a year and come in via St Malo port. It is a well known fact that the police in this area will pull cars with my local reg plate and check equiptment, it is an easy fine and I know loads who have been fined on the spot, if I recall the fines were around €90. We purchased one of those driving kits that contain all you need do not see an issue really, think it cost us under £40 and comes in a handy bag.
Remember the high viz jackets are no good in the boot, they must be in the cabin.
The only thing we do not carry is a breathalyzer as firstly there is no fine for not having one and secondly I do not drink so would never require to use one to see if i am ok.
Remember the high viz jackets are no good in the boot, they must be in the cabin.
The only thing we do not carry is a breathalyzer as firstly there is no fine for not having one and secondly I do not drink so would never require to use one to see if i am ok.
mcdjl said:
Yup, there were lots of signs on the motorways telling me that. Everyone still seems to do 90kph on them though.
Has anyone got any idea what the gantrys with loads of sensor/cameras hanging off them are for? As in 3/4 different sensors for each lane on the motorway and generally not speed ones (unless they've stopped playing nice and not signing these).
Those gantry's were intended for the monitoring and taxation of HGV's. The French unions did their usual thing and organised rolling road blocks. The powers that be then decided, after spending millions erecting the gantry's, that they would not use them after all. They now stand there as useless ornaments.Has anyone got any idea what the gantrys with loads of sensor/cameras hanging off them are for? As in 3/4 different sensors for each lane on the motorway and generally not speed ones (unless they've stopped playing nice and not signing these).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I don't understand why you think being fined in France is 'ghastly', and being fined in the UK isn't. Of course, in France speeding drivers are "taken off the road" immediately, and precisely because their driving is deemed a threat. In the UK, it can take weeks for notice of a fine or a ban to be served. Doesn't that intimate that the offence is considerably less serious than immediate roadside enforcement does? If you get stopped and fined by the roadside for speeding or driving dangerously in France, you're going to think carefully about doing it again.
If you break the limit in the UK or drive dangerously, you can continue to drive in that manner for days or weeks without any hint of enforcement. My late (both at the time and now) business partner got 9 points in an hour and a half once, all off the same camera. If he'd been subject to immediate enforcement, he'd only have broken the limit once, which would ultimately have been safer for everyone.
I know you don't like what you call "frogmarching" and "mugging", but ignorance of the law is no defence (neither is hyperbole), and if the law says you will pay a fine, in cash, at the roadside, and you don't bave the cash on you, then you will be expected to obtain the cash to comply with the law.
In the UK, speeding is apparently, a serious offence because of the risk to life. Yet in most cases, you can elect to pay a fine and for a Speed Awareness Course and consequently, you can essentially escape any long term punishment (by way of points in your licence). To me, that tells UK drivers that you can get away with breaking the law for no real punishment except having to spend four hours in a church hall pretending to be contrite. I know you can only use this route once or twice, but I think it's a strong argument that speed enforcement in the UK is primarily about cash generation.
In France, they think speed is a serous offence, and they will (and do) produce all kinds of data about road fatalities to support their hypothesis. Given that's what they think, I reckon their method of enforcement is a lot more transparent and overt then ours.
Having said all of which it's true that, particularly in the top half of France, UK drivers are not thought of very highly. Years of Brits abusing speed laws across France, and 'racing' in convoy to Le Mans because they knew they were immune from prosecution has given us all a bad name.
Thatdoesn't mean British drivers get treated any more harshly, but the police, may well be less willing to turn the other cheek.
I wasn't 'frogmarched' anywhere, nor was I 'mugged'. There's a tariff of fines, and I paid in accordance with it. I got a receipt for the cash, and for my licence (which arrived back home in Blighty about three weeks later along with notification of my 3 month ban). I actually prefer that method of enforcement (although it was incredibly inconvenient) to ours, which is to send a letter telling somebody they broke the law a while ago and to levy a punishment that, in essence, is unconnected to the crime in the mind of the offender, who often won't even remember doing wrong and wasn't aware of it at the time.
heebeegeetee said:
I've driven in France for over 40 years and had very little trouble with the police, never been fined, despite taking a very lax attitude to speed limits when I think I'll get away with it.
In fairness the longer you spend in a place and the better you get to know the quirks, the more likely you are to know when you can and can't get away with it. What days of the week and what times of day the scamera van will be outside a certain village. What stretches of road are basically unenforced. When the random breathalyser check squad will be out. It's when one has just arrived in a country and drive exactly the same way we drive in the UK that problems begin. vsonix said:
heebeegeetee said:
I've driven in France for over 40 years and had very little trouble with the police, never been fined, despite taking a very lax attitude to speed limits when I think I'll get away with it.
In fairness the longer you spend in a place and the better you get to know the quirks, the more likely you are to know when you can and can't get away with it. What days of the week and what times of day the scamera van will be outside a certain village. What stretches of road are basically unenforced. When the random breathalyser check squad will be out. It's when one has just arrived in a country and drive exactly the same way we drive in the UK that problems begin. creampuff said:
Yet when you rent a car from major car rental companies in France, they don't come with spare bulbs, hi viz vests or breath test kits. Or even advice that you should have them.
What a paradox. Could it be that these requirements are routinely ignored by everyone?
The car i rented in france 3 weeks ago (dollar car rentals) had everything bar the breath test kit, i did not bother to buy a kit.What a paradox. Could it be that these requirements are routinely ignored by everyone?
mcdjl said:
Has anyone got any idea what the gantrys with loads of sensor/cameras hanging off them are for? .
They were part of a plan to automatically tax HGVs. They appear on main roads leading in and out of towns. The plan was dropped after they put all of the infrastructure in placeDoofus said:
I wasn't 'frogmarched' anywhere, nor was I 'mugged'. There's a tariff of fines, and I paid in accordance with it. I got a receipt for the cash, and for my licence (which arrived back home in Blighty about three weeks later along with notification of my 3 month ban). I actually prefer that method of enforcement (although it was incredibly inconvenient) to ours, which is to send a letter telling somebody they broke the law a while ago and to levy a punishment that, in essence, is unconnected to the crime in the mind of the offender, who often won't even remember doing wrong and wasn't aware of it at the time.
I agree and actually, the judiciary process is quite thorough and very fair in France, including for non-residents.If you don't reside in France, the Police or Gendarmerie will ask you for a cash payment indeed. This won't be a fine - the separation of powers and due process prevent that - only a judge can actually decide on the punishment (unless you decide to waive that right and go for a fixed fine, which is often the case for less serious infractions).
They will take a deposit corresponding to the highest possible fine that can be imposed for the infraction by a court.
Once your case has gone through the due judiciary process (where you are invited to be represented), then two things can happen : either the judge imposes the max penalty (rare) or a lesser penalty and the Police / Gendarme will write to you to arrange partial refund. They will also give you a chance to appeal obviously.
I know a lot gets lost in translation and people get upset mainly because they don't understand the process, make assumptions or don't employ the services of a translator to help them with the guidance printed on the receipt or in the ensuing paperwork.
I think the system is extremely fair and very rational. The linguistic barrier is not helping and I do think the paperwork should be multilingual though (maybe it is now) but if not it's up to the non-French speaker to make arrangements.
Alternatively, if people stuck to the speed limit (or thereabouts, there is quite a lot of leeway...) and visited one of the local tracks for proper fun (track days are very cheap there), that would be simpler again
(he says who got caught on the way back from Nogaro!).Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 22 July 12:25
nickfrog said:
I know a lot gets lost in translation and people get upset mainly because they don't understand the process, make assumptions or don't employ the services of a translator to help them with the guidance printed on the receipt or in the ensuing paperwork.
I think the system is extremely fair and very rational. The linguistic barrier is not helping and I do think the paperwork should be multilingual though (maybe it is now) but if not it's up to the non-French speaker to make arrangements.
I agree. I wish the police in the UK would step up their policing of foreign drivers with similar measures.I think the system is extremely fair and very rational. The linguistic barrier is not helping and I do think the paperwork should be multilingual though (maybe it is now) but if not it's up to the non-French speaker to make arrangements.
You don't even need a translator. For the purposes of understanding the documents, google translate will suffice.
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