Rejecting used main dealer car post 30 days. Anyone done it?
Discussion
jm doc said:
That's a joke about the manufacturer taking any interest. Last year I bought a 12 month old BMW M5 from a main dealer 250 miles away, 3.5k miles on it. It was a wreck, 2 wheel bearings gone, noisy diff, brake judder, all of which i discovered on the long drive home, and later found that someone before me had bought it and rejected it which they didn't disclose. It was also claimed it was a BMW management car though it was registered previously to a car hire company. I rejected the car and managed to get my money back but was stilll somewhat out of pocket with expenses etc.
BMW UK were a disgrace, not the slightest bit interested and did absolutely nothing, despite it being "BMW approved used" with it's alleged full check up before being sold. Similarly by the way were Trading Standards who also did nothing and a few weeks later car was back on sale and no doubt sold to another mug punter.
I had pretty much the same experience, with an M135i. BMW UK were a disgrace, not the slightest bit interested and did absolutely nothing, despite it being "BMW approved used" with it's alleged full check up before being sold. Similarly by the way were Trading Standards who also did nothing and a few weeks later car was back on sale and no doubt sold to another mug punter.
Bought it, 250 miles away drove it home all fine, over the next few days:
Steering started creaking
Air con didn't work
Exhaust rattled on startup
windows were clicking as it went up and down.
Reported it to local dealer, got it booked in "all normal noises sir" to which I blunty reminded them that a rattly exhaust, fault A/C and steering creaking noises are not "normal" and need to be properly looked at.
After much ballache, and to and frow from local f
k-nugget dealers it developed even more faults where the iDrive stopped working, washer jets randomly died and a load of other bits. All local dealer did was tell me "go back to supplying dealer, they sold it to you, they have the profit, not us" failing to negate that it had an Approved used warranty on it. Didn't matter. Spoke to BMW UK, after rejecting the car to the supplied the car (who ironically, said the dealership were chatting s
t, and approved over 8k in repairs through the warranty!) to make a formal complaint about Lick Dovett and they basically said they said it wasn't covered, it's not. They refused to answer my why BMW Hull (supplying dealer, who were brilliant) had just approved all of the repairs. Absolute joke, and it completely put me off BMW. Going back to Jap now.
Wow, yes it's becoming clear that 'approved' means absolutely sod all.
As does any benefits of a dealer 'network'. If your local one is good then cool, but no one should be under the illusion that head office will help in any way.
I just sent the official notification by recorded delivery. Will update thread with any news....
As does any benefits of a dealer 'network'. If your local one is good then cool, but no one should be under the illusion that head office will help in any way.
I just sent the official notification by recorded delivery. Will update thread with any news....
I'm not quite sure I get the 'dealer network' benefits piece. I don't assume that you can use any dealer in a network to resolve issues under a used (or new) car purchase. Am I in the minority here?
There's certainly no mention of anything of that nature in the Mazda Approved Used blurb. I think this is the nub of the problem. You haven't given the dealer the chance to resolve the problems.
I fully understand it's really stty and you shouldn't have the car with the problems its got, but I don't get the 'network' thing.
Really hope you get it sorted though.
Bert
There's certainly no mention of anything of that nature in the Mazda Approved Used blurb. I think this is the nub of the problem. You haven't given the dealer the chance to resolve the problems.
I fully understand it's really s
tty and you shouldn't have the car with the problems its got, but I don't get the 'network' thing.Really hope you get it sorted though.
Bert
Chimune said:
Wow, yes it's becoming clear that 'approved' means absolutely sod all.
As does any benefits of a dealer 'network'. If your local one is good then cool, but no one should be under the illusion that head office will help in any way.
I just sent the official notification by recorded delivery. Will update thread with any news....
The "approved" is simply to give the customer more confidence.As does any benefits of a dealer 'network'. If your local one is good then cool, but no one should be under the illusion that head office will help in any way.
I just sent the official notification by recorded delivery. Will update thread with any news....
Most main dealers take it seriously, sadly some don't.
Helicopter123 said:
So that’s 3 people who’ve bought a car from 250 miles away without any inspection or test drive?
I would expect more from an approved used vehicle but really guys???
I've done it many times over the last couple of decades, mainly M5/6's, but also Porsche and Audi and not had any problems until last year. Given that I was buying a 12 month old high performance car that had been priced at around 85k when new and had done only 3.5k miles as a BMW management car, I think it wasn't unreasonable. Obviously i looked over the car and drove a few miles round the block, but it wasn't apparent for some 50-100 miles that there were significant problems. It's not that much different from buying locally, and it's the only way to get really good deals on cars which are not in great supply.I would expect more from an approved used vehicle but really guys???
It hasn't put me off, and indeed after rejecting the car (which they had to collect from my local dealer in their network) I found another one about 150 miles away which I have now and has been completely trouble free (so far!) as all the others bar one have been.
But BMW UK, seriously, you badly need to sort this out. Starting with your customer relations manager. More like customer divorce manager.
Edited by jm doc on Saturday 21st July 00:03
Sheepshanks said:
Chimune said:
The lesson I've learnt here is:
If you buy at a distance and there are more than a couple hundred quid worth of issues - reject it straight away. The dealer may string you along past the 30 days then wash his hands.
The clock stops once you make a complaint.If you buy at a distance and there are more than a couple hundred quid worth of issues - reject it straight away. The dealer may string you along past the 30 days then wash his hands.
What constitutes a complaint? A rejection?
Chimune said:
Sheepshanks said:
Chimune said:
The lesson I've learnt here is:
If you buy at a distance and there are more than a couple hundred quid worth of issues - reject it straight away. The dealer may string you along past the 30 days then wash his hands.
The clock stops once you make a complaint.If you buy at a distance and there are more than a couple hundred quid worth of issues - reject it straight away. The dealer may string you along past the 30 days then wash his hands.
What constitutes a complaint? A rejection?
See CRA 2015 Section 22 - .http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/22/enacted
It's a good idea to read the whole nine yards as well: Sections 19->24.
The motor trade is notorious for attempting to abrogate its responsibilities under the legislation.
The manufacturers are just as bad: frequently acting all Pontius Pilate and refusing to lean on their franchised dealers.
Sorry to hear about your woes op.
Without wanting to sound like a smartarse - never, ever believe a car salesman or trust a dealership.
There are some shockingly bad main dealer approved used cars out there.
Approved used means nothing.
Unfortunately, there is no cutting corners when it comes to buying cars.
You need to go and look at it, test it and check everything yourself.
Good second hand cars are difficult to find and the likelihood is that you will need to travel.
Sometimes you may think you've had a wasted trip.
I prefer to think it was time well spent avoiding problems in the future or not getting what you think you're getting and the resultant ballache that follows.
Just saying ...
Without wanting to sound like a smartarse - never, ever believe a car salesman or trust a dealership.
There are some shockingly bad main dealer approved used cars out there.
Approved used means nothing.
Unfortunately, there is no cutting corners when it comes to buying cars.
You need to go and look at it, test it and check everything yourself.
Good second hand cars are difficult to find and the likelihood is that you will need to travel.
Sometimes you may think you've had a wasted trip.
I prefer to think it was time well spent avoiding problems in the future or not getting what you think you're getting and the resultant ballache that follows.
Just saying ...
I just had a car replaced in the past week after almost 12 weeks of ownership after there were issues within and after the 30 days.
Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
Simple fact is, within the first 14 days you can reject for any reason. Within 30 you can reject on any fault. After 30 days but within 6 months it is the dealers responsibility to fix it. The law presumes the fault was there at purchase. You have to give them the chance of fixing first, if they don't manage that, you can reject for replacement or refund.
If you were sold the car and misled (for example, not being told it had an engine swap), you may be able to reject.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Consumer rights here: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the...
Good luck. Stick to your guns and you will win.
Thanks for all the extra info. Looks like I'm gonna need it....
Update :
MD arrived back off his hols after reviewing my 'note' he could offer me 1000 to sort it out.
He stated that he didn't want an unhappy customer.
As he had somehow misunderstood the nature of the letter - which is a list of facts, a statement of rejection and 5 reasons why the car was being rejected, I pointed out that the time for further discussions had now passed.
I also said that he already had an unhappy customer and the only remedy for this was to come and get the car without delay. If he failed to do this my only option would be to take him to court.
He took umbrage at this saying I'd threatened him (poor poppet), he thought I was wrong on some of my legal positions and that he would be handing the case over to his legal team.
I replied saying he had left me with no choice and I only need one of my legal positions to be accepted by a court.
So there we go.
He has 7 days to send me his rejection procedure and details of refund and collection. Or we are off to court.
The Motor Ombudsman hasn't got back to me at all yet, so I guess that might be able to save the process.
In the meantime it looks like I might need some professional advice. Im not sure I know what to do if Ombudsman fails!!
Would a court case be to force him to accept the car back? Or to get the money back? Or something else?
Is court the same as the moneyclaim site mentioned previously?
Update :
MD arrived back off his hols after reviewing my 'note' he could offer me 1000 to sort it out.
He stated that he didn't want an unhappy customer.
As he had somehow misunderstood the nature of the letter - which is a list of facts, a statement of rejection and 5 reasons why the car was being rejected, I pointed out that the time for further discussions had now passed.
I also said that he already had an unhappy customer and the only remedy for this was to come and get the car without delay. If he failed to do this my only option would be to take him to court.
He took umbrage at this saying I'd threatened him (poor poppet), he thought I was wrong on some of my legal positions and that he would be handing the case over to his legal team.
I replied saying he had left me with no choice and I only need one of my legal positions to be accepted by a court.
So there we go.
He has 7 days to send me his rejection procedure and details of refund and collection. Or we are off to court.
The Motor Ombudsman hasn't got back to me at all yet, so I guess that might be able to save the process.
In the meantime it looks like I might need some professional advice. Im not sure I know what to do if Ombudsman fails!!
Would a court case be to force him to accept the car back? Or to get the money back? Or something else?
Is court the same as the moneyclaim site mentioned previously?
Edited by Chimune on Friday 27th July 08:06
Similar situation with me about a year ago. Used bmw with 3500 Miles, one owner and in writing from the dealer (verbatim) “Julian you’ll never find a used car as perfect as this one”...
Dealing at a distance so arrived, collected the car (which actually wasn’t quite as perfect as suggested outwardly but was still acceptable) and about two weeks later it developed a braking fault.
Local BMW agent suggested it needed four new discs and wanted about £2500 for the job (M4) - and no sir it’s not warranty because the car is 18 months old (why that had anything to do with it I don’t know) so you’ll have to pay. I called BMW who were (like previous posters) disinterested.
I was very embarrassed that I had to call the supplying dealer and ask for them to sort it or that I’d sadly have to reject the car. Amazingly they sent new discs and pads to the local dealership and picked up the bill themselves. Great service from my original dealer pressured by the new laws but shocking service from BMW themselves.
I’ve read some of the motor trade guys on here moaning about the new laws but I’ve been connected to the trade all my life and in my opinion they are a great step forwards.
When the trade buys a car it normally doesn’t even see the car. All they get is a model, basic spec and mileage and a little concession if the car needs more than a handful of smart repairs. Nobody looks underneath, nobody checks anything. They roll the dice on every car they buy. All this “approved” stuff is nothing more than marketing puffery. I knew all that before I bought my car but what surprised me was that BMW are not prepared to dive on these problems and make good their obligations as part of their strategy.
Dealing at a distance so arrived, collected the car (which actually wasn’t quite as perfect as suggested outwardly but was still acceptable) and about two weeks later it developed a braking fault.
Local BMW agent suggested it needed four new discs and wanted about £2500 for the job (M4) - and no sir it’s not warranty because the car is 18 months old (why that had anything to do with it I don’t know) so you’ll have to pay. I called BMW who were (like previous posters) disinterested.
I was very embarrassed that I had to call the supplying dealer and ask for them to sort it or that I’d sadly have to reject the car. Amazingly they sent new discs and pads to the local dealership and picked up the bill themselves. Great service from my original dealer pressured by the new laws but shocking service from BMW themselves.
I’ve read some of the motor trade guys on here moaning about the new laws but I’ve been connected to the trade all my life and in my opinion they are a great step forwards.
When the trade buys a car it normally doesn’t even see the car. All they get is a model, basic spec and mileage and a little concession if the car needs more than a handful of smart repairs. Nobody looks underneath, nobody checks anything. They roll the dice on every car they buy. All this “approved” stuff is nothing more than marketing puffery. I knew all that before I bought my car but what surprised me was that BMW are not prepared to dive on these problems and make good their obligations as part of their strategy.
Interesting thread this, please keep us updated. And good luck.
My tuppence on approved was with a Toyota RAV for my wife. Bought at 6 years old, owned until 8 and a bit and they were absolutely amazing. Not that it needed much doing, but what was done was under warranty / good will, aside from the recalls we still received.
BMW and VW were appalling with typical warranty issues and faults, so I wouldn't expect their 'Approved' status to mean anything anyway.
My tuppence on approved was with a Toyota RAV for my wife. Bought at 6 years old, owned until 8 and a bit and they were absolutely amazing. Not that it needed much doing, but what was done was under warranty / good will, aside from the recalls we still received.
BMW and VW were appalling with typical warranty issues and faults, so I wouldn't expect their 'Approved' status to mean anything anyway.
Chimune said:
Would a court case be to force him to accept the car back? Or to get the money back? Or something else?
You need to get some proper advice.Edited by Chimune on Friday 27th July 08:06
But my understanding to get a full refund is :-
1. It has to be miss described.
2. They with held information that may have altered your decision about buying the car (used engine recently fitted)
3. A fault within 30 days of ownership.
To aid your case you'll use the "not in a condition expected of an approved used car from a main dealer" but that bit is probably not an absolute reason for rejection. As already said, it's just manufacturers blurb to give peace of mind.
If it was me I'd lean heavily on point number 2.
"If you'd have mentioned you'd just fitted a used engine I wouldn't have bought it"
These are only my suggestions, please get some proper legal advice.
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