Unusual vehicle theft - MK1 Mx5 taken from home.

Unusual vehicle theft - MK1 Mx5 taken from home.

Author
Discussion

NorthernSky

Original Poster:

981 posts

116 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Hi all, I have a few questions for those out there with experience relating to this. I'll try to illuminate what happened as am somewhat confused how to proceed.

I spent this weekend in London and returned to my home (in Berkshire) without checking my phone, only to find a string of messages. Essentially, my friend took my mx5 - my daily car - into town around 3.30am and didn't ask permission. It has suffered front end damage and was recovered a few miles away from my place the following day, without keys. Unsure if it will be written off, it seems probable though.

The friend has confessed to 101 at the scene and at the time that he took the vehicle and explained it was parked in a public car park around 3.30am, he returned to find it missing - he may have left keys in the ignition. However, some vehicle damage has been found down the road so he may have blacked out and not remembered driving it and colliding with vehicles on the way into town.

So, fast forward to now, and he has been v. apologetic and I have forgiven him the joyride. He is a good chap and an intelligent guy, and this unexpected event is very out of character. So, we now need to limit the damage done from a legal point of view. As I understand it, this scenario falls under theft 'TWOC', but am unclear what kind of aggravating factors may be involved. Assuming the vehicle was taken without permission, can anyone offer up a likely scenario now that the police and insurance have been contacted. I have a fully comp policy with a classic car insurance broker.

> Will the broker pay for damage to any third parties, without affecting my NCB?
> Should the flatmate expect conviction and/or punishment, if so, what would be likely given the events above?
> Has anyone here had a vehicle stolen in a similar circumstance and what did your insurance do to resolve the issue.

I am not sure if I should make a claim to cover the car. I have invested approximately the value of the vehicle in cosmetic and mechanical work, so any claim won't match what I stand to lose, as well as losing my carefully accumulated NCB. The friend has offered to pay the full costs which is a good thing. But surely I may have the option to buy back the salvage?

Thanks in advance!

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Pissed up and crashed your car. He got off the dui but make him pay up for damage. And find a new friend.

agtlaw

6,680 posts

205 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
NorthernSky said:
so he may have blacked out and not remembered driving it and colliding with vehicles on the way into town.
Lol. How much did you have to drink?



Edited by agtlaw on Wednesday 18th July 18:01

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
NorthernSky said:
> Will the broker pay for damage to any third parties, without affecting my NCB?
……..
The friend has offered to pay the full costs which is a good thing.
What's the extent of the 3rd party damage - do you both realise he's going to have to pay that?

Dark Star

149 posts

189 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
I think this should read that your friend took your car without permission while under the influence of either or both drink and drugs.
He smashes the car into other vehicles.
He then tries to claim your car was stolen while already TWOC by him.
I would get him to pay for your car to be repaired and then let him and the police sort out what happened cause if he had not took the car then none of this would have happened.

Oh and then tell him to f**k off as he is not a true friend bringing this to your door.

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

169 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Looks to me like you should let him hang.

randlemarcus

13,507 posts

230 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Be aware of anyone suggesting you let him drive. Its either he gets TWOC, or you get "allowing him to drive without insurance"

wildoliver

8,766 posts

215 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
You have 2 choices, assuming he isn't on your insurance.

Choice 1. Report it as twoc. Your insurance will take a hit for third party damages I assume even if you don't claim for yours.

Choice 2. Tell the police you gave him permission to drive it and get in to trouble for permitting an uninsured driver to drive your vehicle. The Police will be looking for a conviction out of this situation, it is highly unlikely any waffle will persuade them to say oh well and walk away. Oh and your insurance will still take a hit.

If he is insured on your policy then option 2 looks a lot more attractive. Personally though for the breach of trust and epic levels of stupidity plus the financial costs that are going to hit you now and for the next few years unless he is going to pony up a lot of cash to set you right again he would be becoming an ex friend straight away.

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
wildoliver said:
You have 2 choices, assuming he isn't on your insurance.

Choice 1. Report it as twoc. Your insurance will take a hit for third party damages I assume even if you don't claim for yours.

Choice 2. Tell the police you gave him permission to drive it and get in to trouble for permitting an uninsured driver to drive your vehicle. The Police will be looking for a conviction out of this situation, it is highly unlikely any waffle will persuade them to say oh well and walk away. Oh and your insurance will still take a hit.

If he is insured on your policy then option 2 looks a lot more attractive. Personally though for the breach of trust and epic levels of stupidity plus the financial costs that are going to hit you now and for the next few years unless he is going to pony up a lot of cash to set you right again he would be becoming an ex friend straight away.
Except of course, choice 2 is not true! !
OP, just tell the relevant authorities the truth. If he ends up in trouble, well he should have thought of that!!


Report it as a TWOC if that is what he did. As for all the may have blacked out, well if he doesn't know what he did, but your car was taken at 3.30am, it sounds like he should have just been in bed at that time and not spannering about in your car! But you know that. If he gets in trouble it will likely still be a cheap lesson compared to what he should have ended up being done for!

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
wildoliver said:
You have 2 choices, assuming he isn't on your insurance.

Choice 1. Report it as twoc. Your insurance will take a hit for third party damages I assume even if you don't claim for yours.

Choice 2. Tell the police you gave him permission to drive it and get in to trouble for permitting an uninsured driver to drive your vehicle. The Police will be looking for a conviction out of this situation, it is highly unlikely any waffle will persuade them to say oh well and walk away. Oh and your insurance will still take a hit.

If he is insured on your policy then option 2 looks a lot more attractive. Personally though for the breach of trust and epic levels of stupidity plus the financial costs that are going to hit you now and for the next few years unless he is going to pony up a lot of cash to set you right again he would be becoming an ex friend straight away.
Except of course, choice 2 is not true! !
OP, just tell the relevant authorities the truth. If he ends up in trouble, well he should have thought of that!!


Report it as a TWOC if that is what he did. As for all the may have blacked out, well if he doesn't know what he did, but your car was taken at 3.30am, it sounds like he should have just been in bed at that time and not spannering about in your car! But you know that. If he gets in trouble it will likely still be a cheap lesson compared to what he should have ended up being done for!

NorthernSky

Original Poster:

981 posts

116 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Thanks to all of you so far.

As he called it in himself to the police, I am not taking the rap for the TWOC. He understands and accepts that. He is not on the insurance policy.

My take on it so far has been to sit down and hear his side of events. I'm taking the position for the sake of neutrality that he and the police need to communicate and it is up to him what he tells them, he stated to me he has no knowledge of striking other vehicles but that is a matter of conjecture, UNLESS proof comes to light of him doing so ie. Cctv.

Agtlaw- I had several beers that night but in an entirely different city, and not whilst driving!

...I would like to help the guy rectify the situation as far as possible as I like him, I am inclined to help rather than chuck him under the bus, so to speak. Generally he has a lot to offer society, he isn't a scrote like some out there.

Regards to the comment on the insurance payouts; my ins. company clarified today that they are duty bound to pay out to the third parties but surely the onus is on the company to investigate my friend and corroborate with police?

I am not trying to cover for him, but do accept it may come across like it to some of you. He had accepted his fate. I just need to tread carefully so as to not compromise my own NCB!

I wonder if he ought to hire a solicitor to anticipate legal proceedings. He may well have caused all the damage himself and the story I have heard is omitting some... details. But the way I see it, I'm not in a position to guess or bias the next stages of the legal process. I wasn't even at home when this all happened!

Gavia

7,627 posts

90 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
NorthernSky said:
Thanks to all of you so far.

As he called it in himself to the police, I am not taking the rap for the TWOC. He understands and accepts that. He is not on the insurance policy.

My take on it so far has been to sit down and hear his side of events. I'm taking the position for the sake of neutrality that he and the police need to communicate and it is up to him what he tells them, he stated to me he has no knowledge of striking other vehicles but that is a matter of conjecture, UNLESS proof comes to light of him doing so ie. Cctv.

Agtlaw- I had several beers that night but in an entirely different city, and not whilst driving!

...I would like to help the guy rectify the situation as far as possible as I like him, I am inclined to help rather than chuck him under the bus, so to speak. Generally he has a lot to offer society, he isn't a scrote like some out there.

Regards to the comment on the insurance payouts; my ins. company clarified today that they are duty bound to pay out to the third parties but surely the onus is on the company to investigate my friend and corroborate with police?

I am not trying to cover for him, but do accept it may come across like it to some of you. He had accepted his fate. I just need to tread carefully so as to not compromise my own NCB!

I wonder if he ought to hire a solicitor to anticipate legal proceedings. He may well have caused all the damage himself and the story I have heard is omitting some... details. But the way I see it, I'm not in a position to guess or bias the next stages of the legal process. I wasn't even at home when this all happened!
Your NCD (or at least part of it, as described on your insurance certificate) is long gone. Your insurance will be paying out for the damage caused. They may or may not recover it from your fired but until they do in full then your NCD is history.

Why are you being so supportive of someone who effectively stole your car while pissed, crashed it into other people’s cars (you’re even denying this), has written your car off and caused you a world of pain?

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
NorthernSky said:
Regards to the comment on the insurance payouts; my ins. company clarified today that they are duty bound to pay out to the third parties......
Yes they are. If it had been stolen by an unknown person, then the 3rd parties' own insurance would have to cover them, yours wouldn't.

As they can identify the driver, your insurer will seek to recover their costs from your friend.

NorthernSky said:
…..but surely the onus is on the company to investigate my friend and corroborate with police?
Don't know what you mean by this?

996Keef

435 posts

90 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Essentially your car was nicked and crashed.

I think I'd treat it as such.

If he's a good dude, I could forgive, but couldn't forget

Sorry if that's no help

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Mk1 MX5, so not exactly big value. Probably worth almost as much in bits as intact, damage apart? Do you know how bad the damage is yet?

I'd be wondering if it's worth claiming for the car. You can't avoid a claim, because of the third-party stuff the idiot bounced off, but you've got the potential to keep the car. They won't even bother inspecting it - it'll be a write-off, straight away.

Herr Schnell

2,342 posts

198 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
NorthernSky said:
so he may have blacked out and not remembered driving it and colliding with vehicles on the way into town.
Lol. How much did you have to drink?



Edited by agtlaw on Wednesday 18th July 18:01

KAgantua

3,848 posts

130 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
NorthernSky said:
Hi all, I have a few questions for those out there with experience relating to this. I'll try to illuminate what happened as am somewhat confused how to proceed.

I spent this weekend in London and returned to my home (in Berkshire) without checking my phone, only to find a string of messages. Essentially, my friend took my mx5 - my daily car - into town around 3.30am and didn't ask permission. It has suffered front end damage and was recovered a few miles away from my place the following day, without keys. Unsure if it will be written off, it seems probable though.

The friend has confessed to 101 at the scene and at the time that he took the vehicle and explained it was parked in a public car park around 3.30am, he returned to find it missing - he may have left keys in the ignition. However, some vehicle damage has been found down the road so he may have blacked out and not remembered driving it and colliding with vehicles on the way into town.

So, fast forward to now, and he has been v. apologetic and I have forgiven him the joyride. He is a good chap and an intelligent guy, and this unexpected event is very out of character. So, we now need to limit the damage done from a legal point of view. As I understand it, this scenario falls under theft 'TWOC', but am unclear what kind of aggravating factors may be involved. Assuming the vehicle was taken without permission, can anyone offer up a likely scenario now that the police and insurance have been contacted. I have a fully comp policy with a classic car insurance broker.

> Will the broker pay for damage to any third parties, without affecting my NCB?
> Should the flatmate expect conviction and/or punishment, if so, what would be likely given the events above?
> Has anyone here had a vehicle stolen in a similar circumstance and what did your insurance do to resolve the issue.

I am not sure if I should make a claim to cover the car. I have invested approximately the value of the vehicle in cosmetic and mechanical work, so any claim won't match what I stand to lose, as well as losing my carefully accumulated NCB. The friend has offered to pay the full costs which is a good thing. But surely I may have the option to buy back the salvage?

Thanks in advance!
Tell him to follow the rust marks.

FiF

43,962 posts

250 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
My only advice on this has already been given, in a way. Tell the truth when asked a question by whoever, then your story will never change because you have lived it in real-time. Don't embellish or down play anything, just straight John Bull as impartial as possible truth. Don't volunteer stuff you have not been asked, think before answering.

Your friend will have to face up to whatever he has done, and that would be my advice to him too. Telling a story and being a bit parsimonious with the facts will at some point bite whoever right on the arse.

Sorry, bit boring I know, whether he is to remain a friend will become clear in time.

AndrewCrown

2,280 posts

113 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Northern

What a nightmare for you...

I would just play it straight...if Insurance is now involved...tell them exactly what happened.
If the cops come to see you play it straight.
Similarly if your pal plays it straight with remorse then he might get a ban, a fat fine and some community work...no one’s going to prison ...lawyers will be a waste of money here.

Your friend now owes you big time and I’d spend some time working out what that sum is going to be. I’d say at least double the value of the car plus an annual payment to cover enhanced insurance premiums for the next 5 years. If he was any kind of mate, he’d be offering that now anyway..on his knees...with beer...

NorthernSky

Original Poster:

981 posts

116 months

Thursday 19th July 2018
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
NorthernSky said:
Regards to the comment on the insurance payouts; my ins. company clarified today that they are duty bound to pay out to the third parties......
Yes they are. If it had been stolen by an unknown person, then the 3rd parties' own insurance would have to cover them, yours wouldn't.

As they can identify the driver, your insurer will seek to recover their costs from your friend.

NorthernSky said:
…..but surely the onus is on the company to investigate my friend and corroborate with police?
Don't know what you mean by this?
Thanks for the response.

By that second sentence, I am wondering if they actually CAN identify him - no CCTV exists at the location where the suspected collision took place with the parked 3rd party car, so I curious to know if he might be able to avoid action from the third party insurance company by simply denying knowledge of any incident.

Only asking this to expand my understanding of options going ahead - not saying this is necessarily the *right* thing to do, of course.