Unusual vehicle theft - MK1 Mx5 taken from home.

[Gavia]

NorthernSky said:

I've left my involvement in the story to the police with him. I can't afford to retrospectively allow permission and drag myself into the legal element of this debacle. I did STRONGLY urge him to give a straight, accurate and truthful version to the police. We are now waiting to see if the police will take action - I would guess they will given how open/closed it would be to secure a theft conviction. The involvement of alcohol is deniable and untestable, so he will need to decide if he wants to confess to that as well, if indeed he remembers those details.

I am not sure anyone on here would willingly add culpability for any 3rd party claims in court, an alcohol aggravating factor (and leaving scene of crime), when I am working on his side to extract him from what could possibly be jail time if I do press charges. I won't be doing that. Lad has got a sharp mind and good morals - mostly.

Sorry to break this to you, but this isn’t the US. You don’t get to decide whether this progresses or not, the police and CPS do. There is no such thing as pressing charges over here.

[NorthernSky]

Gavia said:

NorthernSky said:

I've left my involvement in the story to the police with him. I can't afford to retrospectively allow permission and drag myself into the legal element of this debacle. I did STRONGLY urge him to give a straight, accurate and truthful version to the police. We are now waiting to see if the police will take action - I would guess they will given how open/closed it would be to secure a theft conviction. The involvement of alcohol is deniable and untestable, so he will need to decide if he wants to confess to that as well, if indeed he remembers those details.

I am not sure anyone on here would willingly add culpability for any 3rd party claims in court, an alcohol aggravating factor (and leaving scene of crime), when I am working on his side to extract him from what could possibly be jail time if I do press charges. I won't be doing that. Lad has got a sharp mind and good morals - mostly.

Sorry to break this to you, but this isn’t the US. You don’t get to decide whether this progresses or not, the police and CPS do. There is no such thing as pressing charges over here.

Oh, but that's the strange thing, is that I was explicitly asked if I would press charges *for his admittance of TWOC* - that's theft. So in essence I can and do have the option to shield him from that.

I hate to break it to you and all that

[Gavia]

NorthernSky said:

Oh, but that's the strange thing, is that I was explicitly asked if I would press charges *for his admittance of TWOC* - that's theft. So in essence I can and do have the option to shield him from that.

I hate to break it to you and all that

Makes no difference what they said. Once a complaint is made, it’s then up to the Police and CPs whether they prosecute. You have no say in that. They may have decided to use the words “press charges” instead of “make a complaint”, but either way, you can’t withdraw the complaint once made.

[Welsh_Meat]

Reading the story and the comments, I sit here in disbelief.

Speaking from my own experience, luckily did not involve other cars... my uncle crashed my car, total write off, it was painful and a difficult situation to talk about. We finally came to a solution (took a few weeks, even tho he agreed on day0 to pay up) however, ended up agreeing a payment plan (took 6 months) and covered 70% of the 'cost of the initial purchase price of the car' not its real value. I had to pay out of my own pocket extra cash to cover a replacement, source, collect/travel, replacement modifications, insurance, roadtax and get rid of the old car.... oh and my time, cant put a price on time

It was a headache coming to an agreement and sadly we haven't spoken since (only in passing at family events, once).

This event will effect the relationship whatever the outcome.

I do wish we had a better relationship however, he doesn't engage.... maybe its pride or its all he thinks about when we meet.

My only advise is to keep to the truth and next time put your keys in a secure place !

[NorthernSky]

Gavia said:

NorthernSky said:

Oh, but that's the strange thing, is that I was explicitly asked if I would press charges *for his admittance of TWOC* - that's theft. So in essence I can and do have the option to shield him from that.

I hate to break it to you and all that

Makes no difference what they said. Once a complaint is made, it’s then up to the Police and CPs whether they prosecute. You have no say in that. They may have decided to use the words “press charges” instead of “make a complaint”, but either way, you can’t withdraw the complaint once made.

I've never once made a complaint though; the only link the police have to any of this was the friend called it in to 101 *himself* later that same night, around 4am. There is no other line of enquiry. I can also sacrifice my NCB to protect him from 3rd party court action and use my fully comp to pay and 3rd party costs - that's where we need to resolve fair compensation.

For 3 cars and my bike, this will likely be 6-7k plus, to allow for the increased premiums. Not to mention the cost of the work done on the MK1 that I've lost.

Did manage to salvage my centre caps though before it gets sent to the scrapyard. :-)

[PorkInsider]

Gavia said:

NorthernSky said:

Oh, but that's the strange thing, is that I was explicitly asked if I would press charges *for his admittance of TWOC* - that's theft. So in essence I can and do have the option to shield him from that.

I hate to break it to you and all that

Makes no difference what they said. Once a complaint is made, it’s then up to the Police and CPs whether they prosecute. You have no say in that. They may have decided to use the words “press charges” instead of “make a complaint”, but either way, you can’t withdraw the complaint once made.

And it’s not like the police need you as a witness, OP. That’s where it matters whether you would make a complaint. In this case they don’t need you in court for charges to stick.

As Gavia says, you don’t hold all the cards in this.

[NorthernSky]

Welsh_Meat said:

Reading the story and the comments, I sit here in disbelief.

Speaking from my own experience, luckily did not involve other cars... my uncle crashed my car, total write off, it was painful and a difficult situation to talk about. We finally came to a solution (took a few weeks, even tho he agreed on day0 to pay up) however, ended up agreeing a payment plan (took 6 months) and covered 70% of the 'cost of the initial purchase price of the car' not its real value. I had to pay out of my own pocket extra cash to cover a replacement, source, collect/travel, replacement modifications, insurance, roadtax and get rid of the old car.... oh and my time, cant put a price on time

It was a headache coming to an agreement and sadly we haven't spoken since (only in passing at family events, once).

This event will effect the relationship whatever the outcome.

I do wish we had a better relationship however, he doesn't engage.... maybe its pride or its all he thinks about when we meet.

My only advise is to keep to the truth and next time put your keys in a secure place !

Your experience is why I am seeking advice and knowledge on this forum. It's a bit of a shock, and I sympathise with you losing out not just financially but also with the friendship/relationship...

It's hard to gauge what may happen in the future, but I do feel in my case that from sitting down calmly, me and the friend can get through this and stay friends. He'll need to deliver on the compensation which may take him a year of payments.

What model car was yours when taken by the uncle?

I'm looking at a few years of double premiums on a Z4MC, S2000 and motorbike (which I was preparing to take round Europe for a few months). So, I wonder how to factor in the disruption to my life plans from this incident? No way am I getting insurance on a certain KTM for my road trip now! ;(

[NorthernSky]

PorkInsider said:

Gavia said:

NorthernSky said:

Oh, but that's the strange thing, is that I was explicitly asked if I would press charges *for his admittance of TWOC* - that's theft. So in essence I can and do have the option to shield him from that.

I hate to break it to you and all that

Makes no difference what they said. Once a complaint is made, it’s then up to the Police and CPs whether they prosecute. You have no say in that. They may have decided to use the words “press charges” instead of “make a complaint”, but either way, you can’t withdraw the complaint once made.

And it’s not like the police need you as a witness, OP. That’s where it matters whether you would make a complaint. In this case they don’t need you in court for charges to stick.

As Gavia says, you don’t hold all the cards in this.

Hmm, alright, we will see what happens. I'll take the approach that investigation is not part of my ability to influence, although undoubtedly by not pressing charges I am removing quite a large obstacle for the friend in future proceedings?

I dont want to hold any cards or influence going forward. I don't want that power. I just want to hold a large wad of cash in my hand from the friend!

[Google [bot]]

NorthernSky said:

I just want to hold a large wad of cash in my hand from the friend!

Rightio. I think you had a better attitude before the influence on here.

[Sheepshanks]

NorthernSky said:

vsonix said:

Does the OP's friend have his own insurance policy on his own car?
If so then presumably regardless of the TWOC thing would he possibly have been covered for third party damage on his own policy?

Unfortunately not. I take up nearly all the parking spaces in our flat anyway so he wouldn't have room for one!

DOC cover doesn't apply to cars that are nicked! Needs the owners permission.

[Sheepshanks]

PorkInsider said:

And it’s not like the police need you as a witness, OP. That’s where it matters whether you would make a complaint. In this case they don’t need you in court for charges to stick.

I wondered about that - would he not have to appear in Court, or at least give a statement, confirming his car had been nicked?

[syl]

Gavia said:

Why does it need to be retrospective? If you think your mate can get out of this by you having given him permission then just say it was given, even if it wasn’t.

The problem then rests with the OP and whether he’s given permission to a knowingly uninsured driver to use his car

How does it work if one day, maybe after a few beers, my friend asks to borrow my bicycle and I tell him “Hey, what’s mine is yours, help yourself to my stuff whenever you like”. 5 years later, I’ve bought a car, and my friend decides to do do what the OPs friend has done.

Has the friend TWOC’d the car or does he have permission?

Have I “allowed” him to drive the car without insurance?

[BertBert]

NorthernSky said:

I can also sacrifice my NCB to protect him from 3rd party court action and use my fully comp to pay and 3rd party costs - that's where we need to resolve fair compensation.

You've probably covered it already (sorry if so), but how are you going to use your fully comp? Are you saying you have a choice?
Bert

[syl]

NorthernSky said:

I'm looking at a few years of double premiums on a Z4MC, S2000 and motorbike

Your insurance premium on all policies will probably be loaded for the claim (which will be for theft). I doubt it will be anywhere near double.

Your NCB on the car that was stolen will be reduced by a few years, but not gone altogether (unless you only had 1/2 years). Together with the loading, that might mean this particular policy doubles. It might not. It might be more than double.

You won’t lose any NCB on your other policies at all. Next year you will have an additional year’s NCB on them as you haven’t claimed on those policies. These should be much less than double.

EDIT - loading, not losing (changed).

Edited by syl on Friday 20th July 22:11

[blearyeyedboy]

NorthernSky said:

I am not sure anyone on here would willingly add culpability for any 3rd party claims in court, an alcohol aggravating factor (and leaving scene of crime), when I am working on his side to extract him from what could possibly be jail time if I do press charges. I won't be doing that. Lad has got a sharp mind and good morals - mostly.

For clarity, I meant that he needs to be straight with you in future and not evasive. There's a difference between that and your remaining (correctly) removed from what he discusses with the police.

Best of luck, chap. I sincerely hope he's worth your kindness.

[PorkInsider]

Sheepshanks said:

PorkInsider said:

And it’s not like the police need you as a witness, OP. That’s where it matters whether you would make a complaint. In this case they don’t need you in court for charges to stick.

I wondered about that - would he not have to appear in Court, or at least give a statement, confirming his car had been nicked?

Wouldn’t that be covered by the fact that plod must already know the ‘friend’ shouldn’t have been driving the car?

If they weren’t already sure of that, OP could be on the hook for allowing the ‘friend’ to drive uninsured.

[Gavia]

syl said:

Gavia said:

Why does it need to be retrospective? If you think your mate can get out of this by you having given him permission then just say it was given, even if it wasn’t.

The problem then rests with the OP and whether he’s given permission to a knowingly uninsured driver to use his car

How does it work if one day, maybe after a few beers, my friend asks to borrow my bicycle and I tell him “Hey, what’s mine is yours, help yourself to my stuff whenever you like”. 5 years later, I’ve bought a car, and my friend decides to do do what the OPs friend has done.

Has the friend TWOC’d the car or does he have permission?

Have I “allowed” him to drive the car without insurance?

No idea. It’s probably need testing in court, but I think you’d be OK unless he has borrowed your car a few times previously. That’s purely the opinion of a layman though.

[SiH]

You mentioned that you ‘take up all the parking spaces for the flat’ (or words to that effect) when asked if your friend had his own insurance policy. Perhaps I’m misreading between the lines but is the miscreant in question your flat-mate?

[anonymous-user]

SiH said:

You mentioned that you ‘take up all the parking spaces for the flat’ (or words to that effect) when asked if your friend had his own insurance policy. Perhaps I’m misreading between the lines but is the miscreant in question your flat-mate?

I think they’re a couple.

If any of this is true that is.

[NorthernSky]

SiH said:

You mentioned that you ‘take up all the parking spaces for the flat’ (or words to that effect) when asked if your friend had his own insurance policy. Perhaps I’m misreading between the lines but is the miscreant in question your flat-mate?

Yeah he is.