Insurance cancelled after 1 week

[Sir Bagalot]

HarveyM said:

Funk said:

I was lead to believe there are warnings first too.

Apparently not - she thought this was grossly unfair. Perhaps her driving style was past the threshold of “just a warning”.

You're not getting the full story.

There are warning. AFAIK on the third they cancel

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Funk said:

These black boxes seem like a very bad idea...

Stuff....

Well don't get one for your kids then.

They offer a choice. It's not compulsory. Thousands of young drivers are saving lots of money by having them, and have no complaints.

[Pica-Pica]

Sheepshanks said:

desolate said:

SonicShadow said:

What is the extent of it? I wouldn't want anything that's 'reporting home' or tracking me in any capacity.

I know BMWs have that built in, as do other manufacturers.

I can't remember the date but all new cars will have it soon.

31st March 2018. It's all new models, not new cars.

My BMW has one (built Nov 2016). I can activate it by an emergency button in the ceiling (press button, latch drops open, revealing the emergency button), or it is automatically activated if I have a crash (of sufficient severity, I assume)

Edited by Pica-Pica on Thursday 19th July 14:51

[Pica-Pica]

Funk said:

These black boxes seem like a very bad idea...

• Can think you're doing 70 cross-country on a road that doesn't exist in their 'map' (or worse, aligns you to the old 30mph road nearest your location which the new bypass replaced).
• Someone else with their own insurance driving your car with a black box can result in YOUR policy being cancelled or premiums increasing (even though there is NO exposure to the insurer of the owner of the vehicle). How ridiculous.
• Driving slowly at high revs in a low gear can result in the auto-cancellation of a policy as described above!

What if a new driver is scared to make an emergency manoeuvre because it might 'flag' on their black box records? Maybe I'm missing something but without context and accuracy, black boxes seem to be a blunt and useless tool. The ramifications of having insurance cancelled on you at such a young age is also not worth the risk imo.

Ha! My Sat Nav had me driving through the River Mersey, in fact I was driving over the new Mersey Gateway Bridge.

[BertBert]

So as I baldly stated they don't connect to the canbus/obd and others think they do, it would be good to get to whether they actually do or not. I did some googling and could find no mention of anything other than them being GPS based. Has anyone got a link or personal experience/knowledge? I might have to admit to being wrong #again#!
Cheers
Bert

[anonymous-user]

BertBert said:

So as I baldly stated they don't connect to the canbus/obd and others think they do, it would be good to get to whether they actually do or not. I did some googling and could find no mention of anything other than them being GPS based. Has anyone got a link or personal experience/knowledge? I might have to admit to being wrong #again#!
Cheers
Bert

I have experience. It really depends on which company you are with. Some connect to the management system, some don't.

Many have gyroscopes on them in addition to GPS - this will give them data about cornering, braking and collisions.

[surveyor_101]

Pica-Pica said:

My BMW has one (built Nov 2016). I can activate it by an emergency button in the ceiling (press button, latch drops open, revealing the emergency button), or it is automatically activated if I have a crash (of sufficient severity, I assume)

Edited by Pica-Pica on Thursday 19th July 14:51

My daughter pressed that while parked and there is no way to cancel it. I got a very stty BMW Representative to speak to me like I was a child and "do not press the button under the SOS flap", I am now ending the call.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

From an insurance point of view, I think most of the benefit of black boxes for young drivers is filtering out from your customer base all the tts who refuse to have one. They are then left with the sensible kids who put saving money before showing off to their mates. Apparently the claims rate for young drivers with black boxes is around 40% of those without. And the accidents they do have happen at a lower speed and are less costly.

I'm sure they could fit a placebo box and still achieve vastly improved claims results.

[BertBert]

Any connected to the OBD or canbus?
[pedant]
I think it's accelerometers rather than gyros
[/pedant]

desolate said:

I have experience. It really depends on which company you are with. Some connect to the management system, some don't.

Many have gyroscopes on them in addition to GPS - this will give them data about cornering, braking and collisions.

[InitialDave]

BertBert said:

So as I baldly stated they don't connect to the canbus/obd and others think they do, it would be good to get to whether they actually do or not. I did some googling and could find no mention of anything other than them being GPS based. Has anyone got a link or personal experience/knowledge? I might have to admit to being wrong #again#!
Cheers
Bert

Here is a company that provides various types, discussing the pros and cons:
https://www.intellimec.com/insights/insurance-tele...

[Pica-Pica]

BertBert said:

Any connected to the OBD or canbus?
[pedant]
I think it's accelerometers rather than gyros
[/pedant]

desolate said:

I have experience. It really depends on which company you are with. Some connect to the management system, some don't.

Many have gyroscopes on them in addition to GPS - this will give them data about cornering, braking and collisions.

So, if after you have one fitted, you go to a quiet spot to practise emergency stops, both to test yourself and the vehicles response, the black box does not like it then!

[InitialDave]

Confused.com mention the different types of system in their guide to black box insurance:

https://www.confused.com/car-insurance/black-box/t...

[anonymous-user]

Pica-Pica said:

So, if after you have one fitted, you go to a quiet spot to practise emergency stops, both to test yourself and the vehicles response, the black box does not like it then!

It appears that being pedantic is ok so I would say that the black box really doesn't care. It's a machine.

[Gavia]

Pica-Pica said:

So, if after you have one fitted, you go to a quiet spot to practise emergency stops, both to test yourself and the vehicles response, the black box does not like it then!

Don’t forget, the scenario where a meteor lands on your front garden just as you’re turning into the drive and are half on half off and the tremors from the impact alter the gyroscopes trajectory quicker than you’ve expected,even though you’re only just moving when you’re half on and half off the drive and the black box isn’t capable of telling that you’re only partially on the public highway, so that should half the data and make it acceptable.

[InitialDave]

I wonder how hard it is to just move one to a different car, with a more pedestrian driver.

[surveyor_101]

InitialDave said:

I wonder how hard it is to just move one to a different car, with a more pedestrian driver.

They are normally fitted by the insurance company tech and tamper proof, moving it would trigger an alert and would be fraudulent.

[berlintaxi]

Pica-Pica said:

Ha! My Sat Nav had me driving through the River Mersey, in fact I was driving over the new Mersey Gateway Bridge.

When was the last time you updated the maps in your satnav? I imagine most telematic companies are not as tardy as the average driver.

[CanAm]

berlintaxi said:

Pica-Pica said:

Ha! My Sat Nav had me driving through the River Mersey, in fact I was driving over the new Mersey Gateway Bridge.

When was the last time you updated the maps in your satnav? I imagine most telematic companies are not as tardy as the average driver.

Mine tried to get me to drive across the Menai Straits underneath the bridge!

[maclarkk]

Funk said:

surveyor_101 said:

C70R said:

My experience is 100% to the contrary!

Yeh I second that, never again adrian flux.

I spent ages on the phone to them getting a quote (as PH had a discount code at the time). After what felt like an eternity on the phone they then came back with a quote so absurdly out of line with everywhere else I swore I'd never bother with them again...and I won't.

What sort of cars were you trying to insure gents? AF usually best for unique/customised motors.

I guess every company can be reviewed well by one and badly by the other.

[Haltamer]

Faz50 said:

What happens if you go on a track day in your car?

Do you tell them first? How do they know it’s on a track if the gps is dodgy?

Or is it in their t+c not to do so?
But then you can get track day insurance and the box would still be active on one policy but not the other.

Interested to know.

I've considered this myself; When I was in Germany I was planning to go for a (really ) quick whip round the ring:- As it is an "unrestricted toll road", I wouldn't be covered, but applying the logic of the big bad box, I'd also not be in an area with an assigned speed limit:- I use the inbuilt GPS Speed limit to give a good guide of the speed limits the insurers will be working with; as I'm quite sure they will be based on the same source.

As such, (not that I go out of my way to) in areas with temporarily lowered speed limits, e.g. Smart motorway gantry signs, you can "dodge enforcement" rather than the box as it will assume a 70 limit.

From the above logic, when on track, the biggest threat is not the speed but the acceleration, braking and cornering - Even more of an impetus to take a good line, on track and on the road!
I can't help but feel, with 100HP / 100NM for 1.5Kg of tepid hatchback, I won't be triggering the "acceleration alarms" unless I roll off a cliff. - The same goes for anything else that is insurable <20 years old.


All that said, the fitter was nice enough to connect the box to the side of the battery, with a + and - Wire; If I was so intent on giving it all of the beans at once, I could leave that in the garage hooked to a charger whilst running on a spare. Not a good situation to be in if you come to greif though, on a public road at least.