Insurance co won't cover my replacement vehicle costs...
Discussion
A woman reversed off her drive into the side of my (private hire) vehicle last October. She admits liability, I deal with her company directly.
They agree to pay me a day rate until mine is fixed as it should be within a week or so and it saves the time and hassle of them sourcing me a licenced vehicle. That repair turns into nigh on 6 weeks due to their incompetence.
I hired another vehicle in the meantime (which I told them I was going to do) from another driver. Five and a half week's hire totalling £1120 which I am now trying to get reimbursed for. However, the insurance company are stalling and asking for all sorts of ridiculous proof that the hire took place.
Being an almost 100% cash business, there is nothing to physically prove I was handing over £200PW to this guy.
I first provided them with an invoice from the other driver. They didn't like that as it "is not a proper invoice". This guy isn't a huge corporation. He has a few cars he hires out and therefore doesn't have an invoicing system detailing lots of boring T&C's.
I provide his details to the company and they speak with him directly to confirm everything. They don't accept this.
The car was scrapped at the beginning of this year which the insurance company start quibbling about. I point out to them it wasn't scrapped at the time I was driving it around!
Jump to today; having (so far) provided them with an invoice, the hirer's details, a copy of the vehicle's insurance certificate and a copy of it's MOT (all seperately as they ask for one thing at a time once I chase them to see what's going on!), they are now asking for proof of my earnings for the 3mths PRIOR to the hire, the 5 weeks of the hire period, and 1mth AFTER the hire finished. I have now sent proof I was working during the hire period as the rest is completely irrelevant to the hire as far as I'm concerned.
I've had enough now and can see them refusing to pay even having provided them with proof I was working. The day rate they were paying (without hesitation) is more than the equivalent daily hire charge I am asking for! They even at one point asked me to get the other guy's bank statements to prove I had paid him £200PW!
Where do I go from here?
TL;DR a third party insurance company won't reimburse my hire costs and are stalling at every turn and are asking for all sorts of irrelevant information. Not once have they chased me for anything and it's only when I chase them do they then ask for ANOTHER bit of paperwork hence this has dragged on for seven months now and I'm still £1120 out of pocket.
They agree to pay me a day rate until mine is fixed as it should be within a week or so and it saves the time and hassle of them sourcing me a licenced vehicle. That repair turns into nigh on 6 weeks due to their incompetence.
I hired another vehicle in the meantime (which I told them I was going to do) from another driver. Five and a half week's hire totalling £1120 which I am now trying to get reimbursed for. However, the insurance company are stalling and asking for all sorts of ridiculous proof that the hire took place.
Being an almost 100% cash business, there is nothing to physically prove I was handing over £200PW to this guy.
I first provided them with an invoice from the other driver. They didn't like that as it "is not a proper invoice". This guy isn't a huge corporation. He has a few cars he hires out and therefore doesn't have an invoicing system detailing lots of boring T&C's.
I provide his details to the company and they speak with him directly to confirm everything. They don't accept this.
The car was scrapped at the beginning of this year which the insurance company start quibbling about. I point out to them it wasn't scrapped at the time I was driving it around!
Jump to today; having (so far) provided them with an invoice, the hirer's details, a copy of the vehicle's insurance certificate and a copy of it's MOT (all seperately as they ask for one thing at a time once I chase them to see what's going on!), they are now asking for proof of my earnings for the 3mths PRIOR to the hire, the 5 weeks of the hire period, and 1mth AFTER the hire finished. I have now sent proof I was working during the hire period as the rest is completely irrelevant to the hire as far as I'm concerned.
I've had enough now and can see them refusing to pay even having provided them with proof I was working. The day rate they were paying (without hesitation) is more than the equivalent daily hire charge I am asking for! They even at one point asked me to get the other guy's bank statements to prove I had paid him £200PW!
Where do I go from here?
TL;DR a third party insurance company won't reimburse my hire costs and are stalling at every turn and are asking for all sorts of irrelevant information. Not once have they chased me for anything and it's only when I chase them do they then ask for ANOTHER bit of paperwork hence this has dragged on for seven months now and I'm still £1120 out of pocket.
Edited by Centurion07 on Saturday 21st July 13:02
Centurion07 said:
I first provided them with an invoice from the other driver. They didn't like that as it "is not a proper invoice". This guy isn't a huge corporation. He has a few cars he hires out and therefore doesn't have an invoicing system detailing lots of boring T&C's.
I suspect this is the crucial bit.What sort of "invoice" are we talking about? A scratty piece of paper ripped from a notebook, with "rental £1120, <signed> Dave" scrawled on it in crayon? Or something that looks convincing, from an actual independently traceable business (even if sole trader)?
PurpleMoonlight said:
You have no hire agreement and no proof of payment, I'm not surprised the insurer is refusing to pay up.
The whole think reeks of you borrowing an old banger from a mate and trying to pocket the dosh.
This is clearly their attitude. I have provided perfectly adequate proof that the vehicle was a fully legal and compliant private hire vehicle to be used for hire and reward. Either way they are liable to provide me with a replacement vehicle which they couldn't do in a timely manner or cover my hire costs.The whole think reeks of you borrowing an old banger from a mate and trying to pocket the dosh.
TooMany2cvs said:
What sort of "invoice" are we talking about? A scratty piece of paper ripped from a notebook, with "rental £1120, <signed> Dave" scrawled on it in crayon? Or something that looks convincing, from an actual independently traceable business (even if sole trader)?
It was a word document with all the relevant details on but they complained it didn't have any T&Cs and was capable of being edited.Mandat said:
Did they pay you the day rate for the whole of the 6 weeks that the car was being repaired?
No, that was just for the 9 days I was waiting for their mobile repairer to come out, even though I told them it was beyond the scope of a mobile repairer and would need a proper bodyshop.desolate said:
Did you have access to another vehicle?
Just read it properly: it's a plated vehicle.get your mate to type an invoice in word, it will look better.
If they don't pay issue MCOL against the third party.
See above. I have already provided them with a Word invoice amongst all the other numerous bits of proof (relevant or not) but every time I go back to them they want something else.Just read it properly: it's a plated vehicle.get your mate to type an invoice in word, it will look better.
If they don't pay issue MCOL against the third party.
Cooperman said:
A County Court Summons is your next step, after giving them 14 days notice that you will be doing so.
A county court summons won’t help in this case as he seems to be unable or unwilling to prove his costs.The insurance company seem quite fair in asking for alternative ways to prove the cost but the OP continues to refuse to provide them with any of the information.
OP provide them with the information they have asked and I’m sure it will speed up your claim.
Tim2k9 said:
A county court summons won’t help in this case as he seems to be unable or unwilling to prove his costs.
The insurance company seem quite fair in asking for alternative ways to prove the cost but the OP continues to refuse to provide them with any of the information.
OP provide them with the information they have asked and I’m sure it will speed up your claim.
I'm not sure exactly what else I can provide them with since they have had an invoice and also spoken to the guy I hired the car from who confirmed everything to them.The insurance company seem quite fair in asking for alternative ways to prove the cost but the OP continues to refuse to provide them with any of the information.
OP provide them with the information they have asked and I’m sure it will speed up your claim.
No amount of bank statements from either myself or the hirer will prove anything since the taxi business is primarily cash in hand and earnings can vary greatly from week to week.
From my POV, they accepted liability for the crash making them liable to provide me with a replacement vehicle. One person at this firm I spoke to even commented how cheap £200PW was so it's not about the cost for them, it's about whether or not the hire took place, which IMO I have done. They just keep refusing to accept every bit of evidence I give them.
The salient point for me is that the day rate they paid me, without quibbling, for the nine days before my car went to the bodyshop, is more than the daily rate I was paying for the hire car. Hence me getting bloody pissed off, especially since they've accepted liability, that they're refusing to pay out on a hire they are legally responsible to cover.
Edited by Centurion07 on Saturday 21st July 14:02
I sympathise with your problem, Im not in the private hire or Taxi business myself but deal a lot with people who are and practically all business is conducted in cash and they never want receipts. Around my area hiring a private hire or Hackney licensed vehicle from an operator is as you say around £200 per week, had you dealt with a company who specialises in Taxi accident management then you get in credit hire pricing costs probably four fold what you paid.
Centurion07 said:
No amount of bank statements from either myself or the hirer will prove anything since the taxi business is primarily cash in hand and earnings can vary greatly from week to week.
You have had the benefit of working cash in hand for however long you have been doing private hire work. You are now seeing one of the downsides, but I would bet my next months pension you are still well up on the deal overall Edited by Centurion07 on Saturday 21st July 14:02
I bet the insurance company think it's a bit of a coincidence that a vehicle fully plated for PH use is scrapped as soon as you have finished with it.
As I've pointed out already, that makes absolutely no difference. I've already proven to them it was on the road, taxed, tested and insured for the period I was using it. It could've been scrapped the day I stopped using it, it makes no difference; it was legal for the period I was using it. Hence my annoyance at their bringing up irrelevant facts.
Centurion07 said:
As I've pointed out already, that makes absolutely no difference. I've already proven to them it was on the road, taxed, tested and insured for the period I was using it. It could've been scrapped the day I stopped using it, it makes no difference; it was legal for the period I was using it. Hence my annoyance at their bringing up irrelevant facts.
None of that proves it was hired to you or that you paid anything for it though.You claim to have paid £200 pw in cash. Where did that cash come from, is it traceable as being withdrawn from your bank?
PurpleMoonlight said:
None of that proves it was hired to you or that you paid anything for it though.
You claim to have paid £200 pw in cash. Where did that cash come from, is it traceable as being withdrawn from your bank?
The invoices are the proof.You claim to have paid £200 pw in cash. Where did that cash come from, is it traceable as being withdrawn from your bank?
Plenty of businesses take payments in cash and also make purchases in cash, it saves bank charges. I do this and it all goes correctly through my books but doesn't have any bank/card/electronic record.
OP, per the other suggestions, if you have reached an impasse with the insurance company despite having reasonable evidence of your costs it's time to start mentioning legal action, they will generally start being more sensible very quickly.
PurpleMoonlight said:
John Bull printing set invoices don't count anymore.
Hilarious, but if you wanted to use one, it would count.I could write an invoice by hand and have it settled with cash and it's as valid a record as any other.
We are steadily going towards being cashless for sure but it's not there yet and just because some desk bound insurance bod pays for his morning Costa by card doesn't mean he can ignore people that still use actual money.
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