Fraudulant Card Payment

Author
Discussion

Order66

6,726 posts

248 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
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MB140 said:
Invariably even if you win. You might end up alienating your bosses to the point they will just make working there intolerable.
That would be constructive dismissal and VERY costly for the employer....

silentbrown

8,793 posts

115 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
quotequote all
superlightr said:
I would wait until they have deducted the money from your wages.
May be easier to say that than do it. Not everyone can easily absorb a £447 deduction from their pay.

superlightr

12,842 posts

262 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
superlightr said:
I would wait until they have deducted the money from your wages.
May be easier to say that than do it. Not everyone can easily absorb a £447 deduction from their pay.
-yes - I didn't mean to appear flippant about the money - but until they actually do then it could be argued they have done nothing wrong.

Let them put their foot in it and go from there.

MB140

4,027 posts

102 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
quotequote all
Order66 said:
MB140 said:
Invariably even if you win. You might end up alienating your bosses to the point they will just make working there intolerable.
That would be constructive dismissal and VERY costly for the employer....
Yes I agree but that depends if the OP has the fight and can afford the cost of being out of work vs just rolling over and paying.

It’s very easy for us not about to lose our job/house/car etc to comment on wheat we would do compared to the OP. He has a possible chance of these ramifications coming true if he decides to a) fight the deductions and b) go through the employment tribunal and possible loss of income.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
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I have a certain amount of inside knowledge of the culture of the employer in question, although it could well be out of date now I believe most of the senior managers from when I was involved are still around.

Unless the culture has substantially changed, they were always amazingly focused on the bottom line and avoid any form of spending that can't be shown to be essential or reflected in increased profits. I have had fairly senior employees literally begging me not to charge them for a piece of work because they were in fear of their jobs over it.

Thinking that four or five hundred quid is small beans to them would be wrong, it's a direct cost and I would expect someone, somewhere in the business will get hauled over the coals for it. That person is probably doing everything they can to prevent that happening and it could be at a surprisingly senior level.

None of that changes the OP's position, but maybe a bit of insight into how they operate - or used to operate at least.

sugerbear

3,961 posts

157 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
quotequote all
First off you are speaking to the wrong people. Your manager and the HR bod have already decided and you need to speak to someone higher up the food chain. This is where your MP or ACAS can be very helpful.

If you can't get any joy from the CEO or head of HR then get to your MP and ask them to intervene.

If the deduction means they are paying you less than minimum wage (I think that it applies monthly) then they will fall foul of the national minimum wage rules as well. You might like to throw that nugget in as well.

Find another job.

Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
quotequote all
sugerbear said:
First off you are speaking to the wrong people. Your manager and the HR bod have already decided and you need to speak to someone higher up the food chain. This is where your MP or ACAS can be very helpful.

If you can't get any joy from the CEO or head of HR then get to your MP and ask them to intervene.

If the deduction means they are paying you less than minimum wage (I think that it applies monthly) then they will fall foul of the national minimum wage rules as well. You might like to throw that nugget in as well.

Find another job.
Do the minimum wage thing after they have taken it out, it will really fk em up

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
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Some very good advice here. The trouble is the op seems young & it’s all a bit scary.

Please don’t back down op. You’re in the right here both morally and legally. I really would be speaking with an employment law solicitor. Many offer a free initial consultation which may be all that’s required.

sugerbear

3,961 posts

157 months

Tuesday 11th September 2018
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http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4125

One of three conditions has to be met for an employer to lawfully make deductions from wages or take payments from a worker. The deduction or payment must be:

1. required or authorised by legislation (for example, income tax or national insurance deductions)
2. authorised by the worker's contract - provided the worker has been given a written copy of the relevant terms or a written explanation of them before it is made
3. consented to by the worker in writing before it is made.

You can see why they want him to sign something to allow them to take it otherwise it would be illegal to make a deduction if it wasn't mentioned in his contract.

that would be the basis of any letter to HR. Dont sign anything.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Friday 14th September 2018
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Any update, OP?

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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OP? 7pgs of advice and you can't even give us an update?

blueg33

35,586 posts

223 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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C70R said:
OP? 7pgs of advice and you can't even give us an update?
Op has been placed in solitary confinement by employer pending firing and subsequent hang drawing and quartering to set an example to other employess not to make a mistake that the employers hasn't even told them is a mistake........

Apparently the missing contract of employment alos allows the manager to sleep with the employees wife.


Op - serious hat on - an update would be interesting

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,596 posts

154 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
C70R said:
OP? 7pgs of advice and you can't even give us an update?
Nothings happened

no update to give currently

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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DannyScene said:
Nothings happened

no update to give currently
I reckon we need to wait and see if they’re stupid enough to actually make a deduction from your wages at the end of the month.

I’d say they won’t,

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,596 posts

154 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
bad company said:
DannyScene said:
Nothings happened

no update to give currently
I reckon we need to wait and see if they’re stupid enough to actually make a deduction from your wages at the end of the month.

I’d say they won’t,
That's what I'm now waiting for

HR sent me a copy of my contract this morning which doesn't reference card payments and has a blank space where my signature should be

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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DannyScene said:
That's what I'm now waiting for

HR sent me a copy of my contract this morning which doesn't reference card payments and has a blank space where my signature should be
Have you ever signed a contract of employment with this employer?

Or is this the first you have seen of it?

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,596 posts

154 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
DannyScene said:
That's what I'm now waiting for

HR sent me a copy of my contract this morning which doesn't reference card payments and has a blank space where my signature should be
Have you ever signed a contract of employment with this employer?

Or is this the first you have seen of it?
Honestly cant remember there may have been one in the starter pack but I wouldn't like to put any money on it

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
quotequote all
DannyScene said:
Honestly cant remember there may have been one in the starter pack but I wouldn't like to put any money on it
If they had anything signed by you and relevant to this they’d have sent it to you. When are you due to be paid?

jimbobs

429 posts

255 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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Personally, I’d be emailing HR and referencing Sugerbear’s post above. Remind them that there are only 3 lawful ways to make a deduction from your pay, remind them that none of the conditions have been met and tell them that, should they make a deduction, they will be acting outside the law and that you will be taking appropriate action.

Ask them to confirm, in the light of your email, exactly what they will be doing.

Fastroad

3 posts

87 months

Wednesday 19th September 2018
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DannyScene said:
Honestly cant remember there may have been one in the starter pack but I wouldn't like to put any money on it
Is there anything, in the contract regarding 'pay deductions' of any sort? What about the 'card machine' in general (not just over the phone) is there anything outlining the procedures, or more importantly if training is required? Also does it outline the official 'grievance procedure'?

some of the more qualified guys here might be able to comment on how enforceable the contract is encase you have signed it as you're not 100%

to put it in perspective, I've just incurred my employer a congestion charge fine and I've not had to pay it personally.

this is an archaic way to treat staff.