Are Smart Motorways Dangerous?
Discussion
Over the last few months I've had to do a regular trip to Nottingham from Oxford and generally I've chosen to go via the A43 and M1. Now that the new Smart section of the M1 has opened I've noticed that the general behaviour of drivers has changed on this section compared with the not so smart bits further north. The trips are normally after morning rush hour in the morning and before rush hour in the afternoon.
On the not so smart bits you get the normal guys in trucks, vans/pickups with trailers and well behaved car drivers perhaps with a caravan doing 50-70MPH in lanes 1 and 2, then you have the "pushing on crowd" doing between 70-80MPH in lanes 2 and 3 punctuated by the odd "I'm in a real hurry" doing over 80MPH in lane 3 moving over every now and then for the "I've robbed a bank" nutters going so fast you're expecting to see them pulled over 3 miles up the road (or at least that's what you're hoping to see).
This is what I see as generally normal behaviour on our Motorway network and over the years I've pretty much got used to it.
Then you have the behaviours displayed on a smart motorway, nearly everyone apart from the restricted trucks seems to be doing 65-75MPH and on several occasions I've found myself in lane 2 doing about 70MPH being overtaken by a car in lane 3 being overtaken by a car in lane 4 that are also doing about 70MPH all because we're all scared of being caught by one of the new speed cameras.
Now some may think that this is perfectly safe and we're all doing the right thing by keeping to the speed limits but that all comes crashing down (thankfully not literally so far) when you come across 3 trucks all doing around 55MPH in lanes 1, 2, and 3 and then suddenly everyone has to brake and so does everyone behind etc. etc. etc.
I suspect M25 regulars will be used to this but after doing these trips I've found myself feeling less safe when surrounded by vehicles all doing about the same speed especially when something unexpected happens and the consequent chain reaction and started choosing M40/M69 as a perceived safer alternative.
Thoughts?
On the not so smart bits you get the normal guys in trucks, vans/pickups with trailers and well behaved car drivers perhaps with a caravan doing 50-70MPH in lanes 1 and 2, then you have the "pushing on crowd" doing between 70-80MPH in lanes 2 and 3 punctuated by the odd "I'm in a real hurry" doing over 80MPH in lane 3 moving over every now and then for the "I've robbed a bank" nutters going so fast you're expecting to see them pulled over 3 miles up the road (or at least that's what you're hoping to see).
This is what I see as generally normal behaviour on our Motorway network and over the years I've pretty much got used to it.
Then you have the behaviours displayed on a smart motorway, nearly everyone apart from the restricted trucks seems to be doing 65-75MPH and on several occasions I've found myself in lane 2 doing about 70MPH being overtaken by a car in lane 3 being overtaken by a car in lane 4 that are also doing about 70MPH all because we're all scared of being caught by one of the new speed cameras.
Now some may think that this is perfectly safe and we're all doing the right thing by keeping to the speed limits but that all comes crashing down (thankfully not literally so far) when you come across 3 trucks all doing around 55MPH in lanes 1, 2, and 3 and then suddenly everyone has to brake and so does everyone behind etc. etc. etc.
I suspect M25 regulars will be used to this but after doing these trips I've found myself feeling less safe when surrounded by vehicles all doing about the same speed especially when something unexpected happens and the consequent chain reaction and started choosing M40/M69 as a perceived safer alternative.
Thoughts?
I've been using the same stretch of motorway, observed the same thing. But if the speed cameras are working, I think it's always going to happen (can't stop trucks from stupid overtaking) (or drivers not accelerating briefly to complete the overtake).
I also wondered if the speed cameras were in operation. And if so, why only when the smart speed thing was happening.
I also wondered if the speed cameras were in operation. And if so, why only when the smart speed thing was happening.
Miopyk said:
on several occasions I've found myself in lane 2 doing about 70MPH being overtaken by a car in lane 3 being overtaken by a car in lane 4 that are also doing about 70MPH all because we're all scared of being caught by one of the new speed cameras.
Thoughts?
How do 3 cars in 3 different lanes doing 70mph overtake each other?Thoughts?
TooMany2cvs said:
Stella Tortoise said:
Are trucks allowed in L3?
If it's a four (or more) lane bit, yes.Now some may think that this is perfectly safe and we're all doing the right thing by keeping to the speed limits but that all comes crashing down (thankfully not literally so far) when you come across 3 trucks all doing around 55MPH in lanes 1, 2, and 3 and then suddenly everyone has to brake and so does everyone behind etc. etc. etc.
See also the 70mph specs all the way between Dundee and Aberdeen.
This massive preponderance of cameras causes tremendous amounts of bunching with cars in far closer proximity - in front and behind as well as side to side - than every before. So, yes, they most definitely increase road capacity (the political goal), but most certainly at the expense of safety. No one leaves any buffer zones any more. No one has an escape route available when it all goes wrong.
But do the politicians care? No. Because in 10 or so years we won't be driving those jam packed cars any more. We'll just be sitting in random, hired transportation boxes picking our noses while they drive us to wherever, communicating with the other boxes two feet from the door handles...
This massive preponderance of cameras causes tremendous amounts of bunching with cars in far closer proximity - in front and behind as well as side to side - than every before. So, yes, they most definitely increase road capacity (the political goal), but most certainly at the expense of safety. No one leaves any buffer zones any more. No one has an escape route available when it all goes wrong.
But do the politicians care? No. Because in 10 or so years we won't be driving those jam packed cars any more. We'll just be sitting in random, hired transportation boxes picking our noses while they drive us to wherever, communicating with the other boxes two feet from the door handles...
BertBert said:
ghe13rte said:
ARE SMART MOTORWAYS DANGEROUS?
No
How do you know?No
te.Of course they are dangerous.
You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
Only a matter of time before there is going to be a terrible disaster resulting in massive loss of life.
You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
Only a matter of time before there is going to be a terrible disaster resulting in massive loss of life.
Wacky Racer said:
Of course they are dangerous.
You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
Only a matter of time before there is going to be a terrible disaster resulting in massive loss of life.
You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
Only a matter of time before there is going to be a terrible disaster resulting in massive loss of life.
Just like NSL Dual Carriageways with no hard shoulder ?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The "danger" in this example is that those with local knowledge know the gantries with cameras and exceed the limit, everyone else assumes that every gantry has a camera.I see this around M1 Jct 26 every day.
Locals lift off for the camera gantries and the "foreigners" don't and then have to brake when they realise the gap to the local in front is decreasing.
Then at the next non-camera gantry, the "foreigner" thinks that the same will happen and lifts off, but the local doesn't. The "foreigner" now has a bigger gap to close and hoofs it, only to find the next gantry is a camera gantry and he has to stand ond on his brakes when the local lifts off.
Until every gantry has a camera, SMART motorways won't work.
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