Are Smart Motorways Dangerous?
Discussion
dxg said:
But do the politicians care? No. Because in 10 or so years we won't be driving those jam packed cars any more. We'll just be sitting in random, hired transportation boxes picking our noses while they drive us to wherever, communicating with the other boxes two feet from the door handles...
^^^ this. They've left it too late to create more capacity, so are banking on automation to get them out of the whole. In the meantime we are left with this s
tty patch, which conveniently involves creating the infrastructure for road charging which they'll need when electric cars become mainstream.Whereas we have to put up with years of 50 limits and closed lanes while they put up the "smart" gantries, which will then...limit everything to 50.
(Yes I'm peeved...have you tried going anywhere on the M6 recently? 50% roadworks, a f
king travesty)pingu393 said:
The "danger" in this example is that those with local knowledge know the gantries with cameras and exceed the limit, everyone else assumes that every gantry has a camera.
I see this around M1 Jct 26 every day.
Locals lift off for the camera gantries and the "foreigners" don't and then have to brake when they realise the gap to the local in front is decreasing.
Then at the next non-camera gantry, the "foreigner" thinks that the same will happen and lifts off, but the local doesn't. The "foreigner" now has a bigger gap to close and hoofs it, only to find the next gantry is a camera gantry and he has to stand ond on his brakes when the local lifts off.
Until every gantry has a camera, SMART motorways won't work.
Yep, this is the problem - but not even due to the speed cameras.I see this around M1 Jct 26 every day.
Locals lift off for the camera gantries and the "foreigners" don't and then have to brake when they realise the gap to the local in front is decreasing.
Then at the next non-camera gantry, the "foreigner" thinks that the same will happen and lifts off, but the local doesn't. The "foreigner" now has a bigger gap to close and hoofs it, only to find the next gantry is a camera gantry and he has to stand ond on his brakes when the local lifts off.
Until every gantry has a camera, SMART motorways won't work.
I traveled the M6 recently, with cruise control set at a steady pace all the way apart from the smart motorway section in Birmingham. The signs displayed varying speeds from 40 to 70mph, often with a 30mph difference between the gantries. It was impossible to maintain a certain speed without harsh braking or accelerating. After a while of testing the braking and acceleration capabilities of my car I decided to follow someone who seemed to know what he was doing - no ticket and I reckon he saved me 5 minutes.
I noticed some people took a different approach and never went above 40/50mph. Naturally, I am in a car because I'm trying to get somewhere and sitting 30mph below the limit isn't conducive to that. From my experience smart motorways increase journey times and probably cause more fuel to be used from the speed adjustments required to not get a ticket but maintain a decent pace. I wonder what the profit is from the speed cameras on them?
A bit confusing really as we could have all been doing usual motorway speeds without issue - which is what happened before and after the smart section.
covboy said:
Wacky Racer said:
Of course they are dangerous.
You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
Only a matter of time before there is going to be a terrible disaster resulting in massive loss of life.
You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
Only a matter of time before there is going to be a terrible disaster resulting in massive loss of life.
Just like NSL Dual Carriageways with no hard shoulder ?
Looks like poor wacky has been on the baccy.
?
I'm sure I'll get slated for this, but as an occasional user of the M1 (perhaps once every month or two) I actually find it less stressful knowing you have to just go with the flow, without having to worry about huge speed differentials all the time.
Likewise with the average speed cameras on the M3...
Likewise with the average speed cameras on the M3...
Zetec-S said:
I actually find it less stressful knowing you have to just go with the flow, without having to worry about huge speed differentials all the time
Huge speed differentials? If you find 56 to 80 hard to manage you really shouldn’t be driving imo.Besides that there isn’t anything to stop you sitting with the lorries at 56mph.
trickywoo said:
Zetec-S said:
I actually find it less stressful knowing you have to just go with the flow, without having to worry about huge speed differentials all the time
Huge speed differentials? If you find 56 to 80 hard to manage you really shouldn’t be driving imo.Besides that there isn’t anything to stop you sitting with the lorries at 56mph.
I never said I couldn't manage, or that I want to do 56mph, or actually anything about how I drive on the motorway. All I said was that I find it less stressful.
And wrt speed differentials, I'd say on non-camera sections of motorways 80 is on the slow side. So I'd say the speed differential is more like 56 to 90+.
Wacky Racer said:
Of course they are dangerous.
You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
You pull over to the shoulder, the control centre spot you, and set that lane to CLOSED (X) on the gantries.You are driving your car with your wife and three very young children in the back, your engine goes bang/you have a blowout/run out of petrol, you have no hard shoulder to pull onto with HGV's thundering up behind you at 50mph.
Just as likely or not to be hit as on any normal shoulder.
trickywoo said:
Zetec-S said:
I actually find it less stressful knowing you have to just go with the flow, without having to worry about huge speed differentials all the time
Huge speed differentials? If you find 56 to 80 hard to manage you really shouldn’t be driving imo.Besides that there isn’t anything to stop you sitting with the lorries at 56mph.
BertBert said:
TooMany2cvs said:
You pull over to the shoulder, the control centre spot you, and set that lane to CLOSED (X) on the gantries.
Just as likely or not to be hit as on any normal shoulder.
You don't seriously believe in that argument do you? Utter nonsense.Just as likely or not to be hit as on any normal shoulder.
Breaking down in the 'new lane 1' is no different to breaking down in L2, 3, or 4 once a control room is aware they will set signals.
As usual the biggest issue is drivers (usually truckers in the news reports) not looking at what is in front of them there are dozens of examples even on clear dry roads.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-wales-north-east-wa...
BertBert said:
You don't seriously believe in that argument do you? Utter nonsense.
Early morning trips on the M3 have been entertaining over the summer holidays with cars breaking down on the smart motorway section and there being no lane closures in place to protect them. Watching the stranded motorist standing a few feet from their car, barely visible in the dawn light, desperately trying to wave approaching cars and HGVs away from the stationary vehicle whilst the gantries show all lanes open does make you wonder who thought getting rid of the hard shoulder was a good idea.When traffic is light and other drivers can move to lane 2 relatively easily the speed of the motorway doesn't noticeably drop, then it can take quite a while for the red Xs to appear. It seems that it needs vehicles in lanes 1 and 2 to panic, hit the brakes, try to veer into one another and slow down the motorway to a halt in order to wake up the gantry operators before the lane closures appear.
Fortunately Waze often forewarns long before the gantry signs kick into action.
speedyguy said:
BertBert said:
TooMany2cvs said:
You pull over to the shoulder, the control centre spot you, and set that lane to CLOSED (X) on the gantries.
Just as likely or not to be hit as on any normal shoulder.
You don't seriously believe in that argument do you? Utter nonsense.Just as likely or not to be hit as on any normal shoulder.
Breaking down in the 'new lane 1' is no different to breaking down in L2, 3, or 4 once a control room is aware they will set signals.
As usual the biggest issue is drivers (usually truckers in the news reports) not looking at what is in front of them there are dozens of examples even on clear dry roads.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-wales-north-east-wa...
Bert
Hard shoulders exist on SMART motorways. It's just that the hard shoulder can be opened to become lane 1 at busy times to aid traffic flow, at other times it remains the hard shoulder. If an emergency occurs at times when it is being used as lane 1, it reverts back to being the hard shoulder.
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