Are Smart Motorways Dangerous?
Discussion
vonhosen said:
Hard shoulders exist on SMART motorways. It's just that the hard shoulder can be opened to become lane 1 at busy times to aid traffic flow, at other times it remains the hard shoulder. If an emergency occurs at times when it is being used as lane 1, it reverts back to being the hard shoulder.
Are you not thinking about active traffic management? On/off/on/off/on/off. Current versions of "smart motorways" have done away with the existing hard shoulder and turned it into a new running lane for some significant stretches. ATM was considered to be too dodgy to imlement widely as it confuses drivers too much and ends up with people using it when it was supposed to be closed, and requires too much signal infrastruture to operate. Smart Motorways slims down on the number of control gantires required apparently, i guess to save cash.
Edited by Sgt Bilko on Sunday 26th August 17:54
Pica-Pica said:
Define dangerous, and state evidence.
Because the task of driving has become the secondary action. Idiots playing with gadgets while travelling at speed, dangerous ?Idiots anchoring up every time they see a camera ? Dangerous ?
The worst that immidiately springs to mind was a head on i witnessed some while ago, girl thought it was more important to send a text, driving head on into another car, plenty dead.
I don't feel that Smart Motorways are any more hazardous than traditional sections based on my experience.
Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
Eddieslofart said:
Pica-Pica said:
Define dangerous, and state evidence.
Because the task of driving has become the secondary action. Idiots playing with gadgets while travelling at speed, dangerous ?Idiots anchoring up every time they see a camera ? Dangerous ?
The worst that immidiately springs to mind was a head on i witnessed some while ago, girl thought it was more important to send a text, driving head on into another car, plenty dead.
Alex Z said:
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
I'm pretty sure the M42 report said there were less KSI's.Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
Plenty of reports are available
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/m25-jun...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/m25-jun...
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pope-of...
Also the latest fad is to paint ERA's orange from what I gather in trials.
Also it only takes one dodgy accident (coach into back of car) to skew the stats.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/17/bus-dr...
As others have said you can't fix stupid, and too many stupid (with or without licences) are on the road.
vonhosen said:
Good bit of propaganda there. The new sections, where the hard shoulder is now a running lane, is definately not a temporary hard shoulder. They haven't put a solid line in to deliniate it. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-drive-on-a-smar...
said:
Hard shoulder use
On smart motorways you will see refuge areas spaced regularly alongside the motorway. You should use these in emergencies.
This is because on some smart motorways the hard shoulder can be opened up for traffic to use at busy times. If it is open for use you will see a speed limit displayed over it.
If there is no sign, or a red X is displayed, then normal hard shoulder rules apply. In other words, do not use it except in emergency.
A hard shoulder is always clearly identified with a solid white unbroken line.
On other types of smart motorway, the hard shoulder has been permanently converted into an extra lane. Where this is the case the lane looks like any other lane, ie it is marked with a broken white line.
On smart motorways you will see refuge areas spaced regularly alongside the motorway. You should use these in emergencies.
This is because on some smart motorways the hard shoulder can be opened up for traffic to use at busy times. If it is open for use you will see a speed limit displayed over it.
If there is no sign, or a red X is displayed, then normal hard shoulder rules apply. In other words, do not use it except in emergency.
A hard shoulder is always clearly identified with a solid white unbroken line.
On other types of smart motorway, the hard shoulder has been permanently converted into an extra lane. Where this is the case the lane looks like any other lane, ie it is marked with a broken white line.
Edited by Sgt Bilko on Sunday 26th August 19:19
gazza285 said:
BertBert said:
ghe13rte said:
ARE SMART MOTORWAYS DANGEROUS?
No
How do you know?No
te.Alex Z said:
I don't feel that Smart Motorways are any more hazardous than traditional sections based on my experience.
Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
When the traffic is forced to comply with an artificially low limit things bunch up. Add 'speed cameras' and the effect is compounded. So I say in free flowing traffic they add to risk due to afore mentioned tailgating / blind spot hovering / frustrated lane changers / and a smattering of bizarre braking due to the apparent risk of getting nicked for nothing.Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
More dangerous.
vonhosen said:
Hard shoulders exist on SMART motorways. It's just that the hard shoulder can be opened to become lane 1 at busy times to aid traffic flow, at other times it remains the hard shoulder. If an emergency occurs at times when it is being used as lane 1, it reverts back to being the hard shoulder.
Not on the M6 in Staffordshire, nor on the M1 in South Yorkshire - 4 lane running at all times, NO hard shoulderDavidonly said:
Alex Z said:
I don't feel that Smart Motorways are any more hazardous than traditional sections based on my experience.
Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
When the traffic is forced to comply with an artificially low limit things bunch up. Add 'speed cameras' and the effect is compounded. So I say in free flowing traffic they add to risk due to afore mentioned tailgating / blind spot hovering / frustrated lane changers / and a smattering of bizarre braking due to the apparent risk of getting nicked for nothing.Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
More dangerous.
I see lots of cars doing very similar speeds in all lanes.
It's not dangerous at all.
It IS frustrating if you want to travel at more than say 55/60. Is this what you mean? Are you just frustrated and instead of being honest, you're claiming a bogus safety argument.
oyster said:
Davidonly said:
Alex Z said:
I don't feel that Smart Motorways are any more hazardous than traditional sections based on my experience.
Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
When the traffic is forced to comply with an artificially low limit things bunch up. Add 'speed cameras' and the effect is compounded. So I say in free flowing traffic they add to risk due to afore mentioned tailgating / blind spot hovering / frustrated lane changers / and a smattering of bizarre braking due to the apparent risk of getting nicked for nothing.Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
More dangerous.
I see lots of cars doing very similar speeds in all lanes.
It's not dangerous at all.
It IS frustrating if you want to travel at more than say 55/60. Is this what you mean? Are you just frustrated and instead of being honest, you're claiming a bogus safety argument.
oyster said:
Davidonly said:
Alex Z said:
I don't feel that Smart Motorways are any more hazardous than traditional sections based on my experience.
Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
When the traffic is forced to comply with an artificially low limit things bunch up. Add 'speed cameras' and the effect is compounded. So I say in free flowing traffic they add to risk due to afore mentioned tailgating / blind spot hovering / frustrated lane changers / and a smattering of bizarre braking due to the apparent risk of getting nicked for nothing.Probably the opposite actually, as the smoother traffic flow means less unexpected braking.
That said, surely this is very easy to prove one way or another by looking at the number of accidents resulting in people Killed or Seriously Injured per million miles driven.
Have we actually had more or less serious crashes on Smart Motorways.
More dangerous.
I see lots of cars doing very similar speeds in all lanes.
It's not dangerous at all.
It IS frustrating if you want to travel at more than say 55/60. Is this what you mean? Are you just frustrated and instead of being honest, you're claiming a bogus safety argument.
pingu393 said:
The "danger" in this example is that those with local knowledge know the gantries with cameras and exceed the limit, everyone else assumes that every gantry has a camera.
I see this around M1 Jct 26 every day.
Locals lift off for the camera gantries and the "foreigners" don't and then have to brake when they realise the gap to the local in front is decreasing.
Then at the next non-camera gantry, the "foreigner" thinks that the same will happen and lifts off, but the local doesn't. The "foreigner" now has a bigger gap to close and hoofs it, only to find the next gantry is a camera gantry and he has to stand ond on his brakes when the local lifts off.
Until every gantry has a camera, SMART motorways won't work.
On the M1 and M62, the gantry cameras have disappeared and been replaced by HADECS 3. Fortunately, those have the extra infrastructure of cameras on high poles before them, so they are easily spotted. I see this around M1 Jct 26 every day.
Locals lift off for the camera gantries and the "foreigners" don't and then have to brake when they realise the gap to the local in front is decreasing.
Then at the next non-camera gantry, the "foreigner" thinks that the same will happen and lifts off, but the local doesn't. The "foreigner" now has a bigger gap to close and hoofs it, only to find the next gantry is a camera gantry and he has to stand ond on his brakes when the local lifts off.
Until every gantry has a camera, SMART motorways won't work.
stepej said:
vonhosen said:
Hard shoulders exist on SMART motorways. It's just that the hard shoulder can be opened to become lane 1 at busy times to aid traffic flow, at other times it remains the hard shoulder. If an emergency occurs at times when it is being used as lane 1, it reverts back to being the hard shoulder.
Not on the M6 in Staffordshire, nor on the M1 in South Yorkshire - 4 lane running at all times, NO hard shoulderSame with going northbound, standard M6 meets up with the M6 Toll. A majority of drivers automatically going to L2 despite an abundance of signage and road markings indicating otherwise.
stepej said:
vonhosen said:
Hard shoulders exist on SMART motorways. It's just that the hard shoulder can be opened to become lane 1 at busy times to aid traffic flow, at other times it remains the hard shoulder. If an emergency occurs at times when it is being used as lane 1, it reverts back to being the hard shoulder.
Not on the M6 in Staffordshire, nor on the M1 in South Yorkshire - 4 lane running at all times, NO hard shoulderSgt Bilko said:
But will the HA be sued for making this road dangerous? Someone needs to be held to task for the idiotic all live running lanes, and implementing them against Police oblections on the matter.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff