M25 variable speed limits - when does the reduced speed end?
Discussion
Bit confused about this.
Been around the west part of the M25 today. Coming back this evening there was a reduced speed limit on some gantries to 50mph. However, after a few gantries with the lower limit, there wasn't a reduced speed shown anymore and no nsl sign. The gantries weren't lit.
Once I had cleared the first clear gantry, I sped back up to 70 mph. I didn't see an nsl sign at all on any following gantries. Was this the right thing to do are am I now getting a ticket?
You could see it was confusing some people as earlier today, when the reduced speed ended you passed gantries with the nsl sign on. Tonight, there were no gantries lit with the nsl sign after the the last gantry with the lower limit.
Does the reduced limit only apply to gantries that are lit up with a lower limit? I obeyed all of these. What signifies the end of a reduced speed limit?
Anyone able to clear this up? Thanks.
Been around the west part of the M25 today. Coming back this evening there was a reduced speed limit on some gantries to 50mph. However, after a few gantries with the lower limit, there wasn't a reduced speed shown anymore and no nsl sign. The gantries weren't lit.
Once I had cleared the first clear gantry, I sped back up to 70 mph. I didn't see an nsl sign at all on any following gantries. Was this the right thing to do are am I now getting a ticket?
You could see it was confusing some people as earlier today, when the reduced speed ended you passed gantries with the nsl sign on. Tonight, there were no gantries lit with the nsl sign after the the last gantry with the lower limit.
Does the reduced limit only apply to gantries that are lit up with a lower limit? I obeyed all of these. What signifies the end of a reduced speed limit?
Anyone able to clear this up? Thanks.
The reduced limit ends when you pass an NSL sign.
The NSL will either be lit up on an Advanced Motorway Indicator (AMI) the illuminated sign, or, will be on the permanent sign at the side of the road that says “Variable Speed Limit Ends”.
An unlit AMI is not a sign and does not indicate NSL...because it isn’t a sign until it’s lit.
Simples.
So you should not have sped up to 70mph at the blank AMI because that isn’t an NSL sign, in fact when unlit is not a sign. I have repeated that deliberately.
The NSL will either be lit up on an Advanced Motorway Indicator (AMI) the illuminated sign, or, will be on the permanent sign at the side of the road that says “Variable Speed Limit Ends”.
An unlit AMI is not a sign and does not indicate NSL...because it isn’t a sign until it’s lit.
Simples.
So you should not have sped up to 70mph at the blank AMI because that isn’t an NSL sign, in fact when unlit is not a sign. I have repeated that deliberately.
Oh dear. First ever speeding ticket on the way for me then.
That's me and loads of other drivers screwed. I was one of the last to speed up. Everyone was doing it.
There wasn't an nsl sign at all after the last 50 limit sign. In fact, there was nothing until we approached another 50mph sign a while later.
There were multiple junctions onto the M25 too and the gantries near then weren't lit either.
That's me and loads of other drivers screwed. I was one of the last to speed up. Everyone was doing it.
There wasn't an nsl sign at all after the last 50 limit sign. In fact, there was nothing until we approached another 50mph sign a while later.
There were multiple junctions onto the M25 too and the gantries near then weren't lit either.
EU_Foreigner said:
Once you pass a junction / joining slip road and there isn't a repeater, then normal motorway speed limit resumes. Cars joining from the slip road have no way of knowing that a reduced speed limit was in place on the motorway.
That's what I thought. Hence why I sped up. I travelled miles without seeing a repeated speed limit sign.Pica-Pica said:
Road works are the worst for this. I have seen plenty of the temporary 50 mph signs (the type with sandbags to weigh them down), but still the uncovered NSL signs.
OP was it red-ringed or just an ‘advisory’ speed limit?
Red ringed.OP was it red-ringed or just an ‘advisory’ speed limit?
I travelled from the M3 junction to the A1 junction. The incident was just after joining the M25. There was another further along but I passed lots of gantries and a few joining junctions that had unlit gantries.
The slip road may (I’d go as far as saying will) have its own sign at the entrance to the slip so you cant rely on a slip road being the all clear.
You used to be able to rely on the fact that repeaters had a minimum distance between them to be lawful, if they weren’t (and I think it was about 600m on a motorway) then the road was incorrectly signed. However they were softening those regs, at least at in towns so I imagine also motorways. I’d say after 1km without a sign you have a reasonably expectation to be ok ertainky if you’ve passed 2 unsigned gantries, but this is because the road is incorrectly signed, a correctly signed road will show a nsl.
You used to be able to rely on the fact that repeaters had a minimum distance between them to be lawful, if they weren’t (and I think it was about 600m on a motorway) then the road was incorrectly signed. However they were softening those regs, at least at in towns so I imagine also motorways. I’d say after 1km without a sign you have a reasonably expectation to be ok ertainky if you’ve passed 2 unsigned gantries, but this is because the road is incorrectly signed, a correctly signed road will show a nsl.
EU_Foreigner said:
Once you pass a junction / joining slip road and there isn't a repeater, then normal motorway speed limit resumes. Cars joining from the slip road have no way of knowing that a reduced speed limit was in place on the motorway.
Slip roads in variable limit areas have signs on them.Seems like you have made this up to suit.
ghe13rte said:
EU_Foreigner said:
Once you pass a junction / joining slip road and there isn't a repeater, then normal motorway speed limit resumes. Cars joining from the slip road have no way of knowing that a reduced speed limit was in place on the motorway.
Slip roads in variable limit areas have signs on them.Seems like you have made this up to suit.
funkyrobot said:
Bit confused about this.
Been around the west part of the M25 today. Coming back this evening there was a reduced speed limit on some gantries to 50mph. However, after a few gantries with the lower limit, there wasn't a reduced speed shown anymore and no nsl sign. The gantries weren't lit.
Once I had cleared the first clear gantry, I sped back up to 70 mph. I didn't see an nsl sign at all on any following gantries. Was this the right thing to do are am I now getting a ticket?
You could see it was confusing some people as earlier today, when the reduced speed ended you passed gantries with the nsl sign on. Tonight, there were no gantries lit with the nsl sign after the the last gantry with the lower limit.
Does the reduced limit only apply to gantries that are lit up with a lower limit? I obeyed all of these. What signifies the end of a reduced speed limit?
Anyone able to clear this up? Thanks.
I was on the M25 last week and saw the same thing. This was the north part of it. It never got the NSL confirmed. The significant traffic went straight back up to 70mph after the first gantry....so if any penalties were to come, that would be a nice cash cow!Been around the west part of the M25 today. Coming back this evening there was a reduced speed limit on some gantries to 50mph. However, after a few gantries with the lower limit, there wasn't a reduced speed shown anymore and no nsl sign. The gantries weren't lit.
Once I had cleared the first clear gantry, I sped back up to 70 mph. I didn't see an nsl sign at all on any following gantries. Was this the right thing to do are am I now getting a ticket?
You could see it was confusing some people as earlier today, when the reduced speed ended you passed gantries with the nsl sign on. Tonight, there were no gantries lit with the nsl sign after the the last gantry with the lower limit.
Does the reduced limit only apply to gantries that are lit up with a lower limit? I obeyed all of these. What signifies the end of a reduced speed limit?
Anyone able to clear this up? Thanks.
funkyrobot said:
Oh dear. First ever speeding ticket on the way for me then.
That's me and loads of other drivers screwed. I was one of the last to speed up. Everyone was doing it.
There wasn't an nsl sign at all after the last 50 limit sign. In fact, there was nothing until we approached another 50mph sign a while later.
There were multiple junctions onto the M25 too and the gantries near then weren't lit either.
This happens a lot, sometimes you'll get an NSL and other times you wont. If it's any consolation I've never received a ticket after speeding up. As someone else has pointed out, if the gantry with a camera on isn't lit you can't get a ticket for a reduced limit although you could for exceeding the NSL. That's me and loads of other drivers screwed. I was one of the last to speed up. Everyone was doing it.
There wasn't an nsl sign at all after the last 50 limit sign. In fact, there was nothing until we approached another 50mph sign a while later.
There were multiple junctions onto the M25 too and the gantries near then weren't lit either.
EU_Foreigner said:
ghe13rte said:
EU_Foreigner said:
Once you pass a junction / joining slip road and there isn't a repeater, then normal motorway speed limit resumes. Cars joining from the slip road have no way of knowing that a reduced speed limit was in place on the motorway.
Slip roads in variable limit areas have signs on them.Seems like you have made this up to suit.
EU_Foreigner said:
Why do you say that? Most of the times, you can see the slip road from the start (or they have no sign at all). I have yet to see a slip road with a limited sign on it and on the main carriage way no repeater sign.
You’re joining a managed motorway, the gantry across the motorway with the variable limit is 100m after the junction, what’s your speed limit as you join and before the gantry? It’s not determined or it’s NSL. That’s not acceptable Every gantry with a speed limit different to NSL is acting as a repeater.
Occasionally they get it wrong, possibly a timing issue, possibly equipment failure, but managed motorways sometimes don’t clear a limit correctly.
ghe13rte said:
The reduced limit ends when you pass an NSL sign.
The NSL will either be lit up on an Advanced Motorway Indicator (AMI) the illuminated sign, or, will be on the permanent sign at the side of the road that says “Variable Speed Limit Ends”.
Simples.
So you should not have sped up to 70mph at the blank AMI because that isn’t an NSL sign, in fact when unlit is not a sign. I have repeated that deliberately.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, some computer or somebody in a control room not putting up a NSL sign even when it is NSL is so common, it’s almost routine. The NSL will either be lit up on an Advanced Motorway Indicator (AMI) the illuminated sign, or, will be on the permanent sign at the side of the road that says “Variable Speed Limit Ends”.
Simples.
So you should not have sped up to 70mph at the blank AMI because that isn’t an NSL sign, in fact when unlit is not a sign. I have repeated that deliberately.
creampuff said:
ghe13rte said:
The reduced limit ends when you pass an NSL sign.
The NSL will either be lit up on an Advanced Motorway Indicator (AMI) the illuminated sign, or, will be on the permanent sign at the side of the road that says “Variable Speed Limit Ends”.
Simples.
So you should not have sped up to 70mph at the blank AMI because that isn’t an NSL sign, in fact when unlit is not a sign. I have repeated that deliberately.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, some computer or somebody in a control room not putting up a NSL sign even when it is NSL is so common, it’s almost routine. The NSL will either be lit up on an Advanced Motorway Indicator (AMI) the illuminated sign, or, will be on the permanent sign at the side of the road that says “Variable Speed Limit Ends”.
Simples.
So you should not have sped up to 70mph at the blank AMI because that isn’t an NSL sign, in fact when unlit is not a sign. I have repeated that deliberately.
If the speed limit doesn’t need to be changed before the next Gantry or gantries they are routinely not illuminated...the speed limit remains what it was at the last illuminated sign until you reach an NSL sign.
Obvious when you think about it...give it a try.
ghe13rte said:
You are absolutely right. They do routinely not illuminate the signs, they don’t have to because what I said above is true.
If the speed limit doesn’t need to be changed before the next Gantry or gantries they are routinely not illuminated...the speed limit remains what it was at the last illuminated sign until you reach an NSL sign.
Obvious when you think about it...give it a try.
What you have written may be the way things should work, but it is frequently not the way it happens in reality. It is very common to have a 40, 50 or 60 showing, then blank signs. Blank signs past the next motorway junction, the slip road of which you can see into even from the main carriageway and which you can see also has a blank sign on the slip road. If the speed limit doesn’t need to be changed before the next Gantry or gantries they are routinely not illuminated...the speed limit remains what it was at the last illuminated sign until you reach an NSL sign.
Obvious when you think about it...give it a try.
The joining traffic is joining a motorway with no signs, so the default NSL applies. The traffic already on the motorway has been past a 40, 50 or 60 with no subsequent NSL sign.
The signs or whoever has programmed the signs haven't made something which works properly all the time.
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