Is this inappropriate behavior?
Discussion
Gavia said:
I still can’t believe that you can’t see ethat the genital touching / punching / poking etc is wrong. It isn’t right on so many levels. No matter whether the other children got punished or not, surely you as an adult can see that two wrongs don’t make a right.
I don't think I've seen anyone here arguing that the genital grabbing is right. It's a bit concerning if adults can't see past this though and allow judgment to be clouded by it as seems to have happened here.
The problem with that is that is sexualises a situation which on the face of it isn't.
It is the child's social awareness which decides if the behaviour was inappropriate.
In any case, I think this has been done to death now. The helper made the wrong call - we have a member here who is in a similar position of responsibility and their solution would have better dealt with the matter.
You honestly couldn't make this s
t up
My sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
t upMy sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
Lenovo said:
You honestly couldn't make this st up
My sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
GDPR? Are you for real?t upMy sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
Maybe there’s a point to what they’re saying. Despite some on here agreeing with you, grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable. This could probably be dealt with in a very short space of time this way, instead of objecting to everything.
I’m pretty certain that if it was your nephew on the receiving end, your indignation would be reversed.
Gavia said:
GDPR? Are you for real?
Maybe there’s a point to what they’re saying. Despite some on here agreeing with you, grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable. This could probably be dealt with in a very short space of time this way, instead of objecting to everything.
I’m pretty certain that if it was your nephew on the receiving end, your indignation would be reversed.
Its more the fact they are telling her she is basically an unfit parent so they have to get Child Services involved. The whole thing is so blown out of proportion. I don't think any parent wants to have Child Services at their door. Maybe there’s a point to what they’re saying. Despite some on here agreeing with you, grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable. This could probably be dealt with in a very short space of time this way, instead of objecting to everything.
I’m pretty certain that if it was your nephew on the receiving end, your indignation would be reversed.
Just to be clear my sister is in no way defending what he did, it was wrong and he has suffered consequences and rightly so, she just doesn't see why Child Services now have to be involved. Also there was no grabbing involved he poked the other kids.
Edited by Lenovo on Thursday 20th September 08:48
Gavia said:
Lenovo said:
You honestly couldn't make this st up
My sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
GDPR? Are you for real?t upMy sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
Maybe there’s a point to what they’re saying. Despite some on here agreeing with you, grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable. This could probably be dealt with in a very short space of time this way, instead of objecting to everything.
I’m pretty certain that if it was your nephew on the receiving end, your indignation would be reversed.
I would question how someone completely remote from the incident can make such a value judgement about somebody's parenting capabilities.
Child Services suggests LA involvement. If that is the case, once they join the party it won't be dealt with in a 'very short space of time' .
Indeed there is no way to know where it might end and the OP's sister will need to be prepared for a potential world of pain.
TooMany2cvs said:
Red Devil said:
Gavia said:
I’m pretty certain that if it was your nephew on the receiving end, your indignation would be reversed.
Maybe so, but would he be determined to escalate it in the manner which seems to be happening here?You seem to have a penchant for stirring the pot...
Red Devil said:
Where is there any of evidence in this thread of parents in 'complete denial'?
Lenovo said:
My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
TooMany2cvs said:
Red Devil said:
Where is there any of evidence in this thread of parents in 'complete denial'?
Lenovo said:
My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Lenovo said:
Its more the fact they are telling her she is basically an unfit parent so they have to get Child Services involved. The whole thing is so blown out of proportion. I don't think any parent wants to have Child Services at their door.
Just to be clear my sister is in no way defending what he did, it was wrong and he has suffered consequences and rightly so, she just doesn't see why Child Services now have to be involved. Also there was no grabbing involved he poked the other kids.
Are they really telling her that she’s an unfit parent, or is that yours and hers emotive slant on it? It is far from ideal that it has gone this far, but this referral needs to be dealt with as soon as possible and as objectively as possible. Just to be clear my sister is in no way defending what he did, it was wrong and he has suffered consequences and rightly so, she just doesn't see why Child Services now have to be involved. Also there was no grabbing involved he poked the other kids.
Edited by Lenovo on Thursday 20th September 08:48
Defending it by saying, he didn’t grab their genitals, he just “poked” them doesn’t make it any less serious.
Your sister may not be defending her son’s actions i your opinion, but everything you’re writing and saying says that she (and you) are doing exactly that.
I refer to my previous statement, that you would not be so calm if your nephew was on the receiving end of a genital poking.
otolith said:
I fear that the escalation to child services may not be about concerns about managing the child's behaviour.
When a child does something that is deemed to be inappropriately sexualised, there is often a concern about how they learnt the behaviour.
Arse-covering is going on.
Because Beavers is a cover for Ron Jeremy Productions When a child does something that is deemed to be inappropriately sexualised, there is often a concern about how they learnt the behaviour.
Arse-covering is going on.
Gavia said:
otolith said:
I fear that the escalation to child services may not be about concerns about managing the child's behaviour.
When a child does something that is deemed to be inappropriately sexualised, there is often a concern about how they learnt the behaviour.
Arse-covering is going on.
Because Beavers is a cover for Ron Jeremy Productions When a child does something that is deemed to be inappropriately sexualised, there is often a concern about how they learnt the behaviour.
Arse-covering is going on.
Have some back
Gavia said:
Are they really telling her that she’s an unfit parent, or is that yours and hers emotive slant on it? It is far from ideal that it has gone this far, but this referral needs to be dealt with as soon as possible and as objectively as possible.
Defending it by saying, he didn’t grab their genitals, he just “poked” them doesn’t make it any less serious.
Your sister may not be defending her son’s actions i your opinion, but everything you’re writing and saying says that she (and you) are doing exactly that.
I refer to my previous statement, that you would not be so calm if your nephew was on the receiving end of a genital poking.
He's not defending, he supported the punishment. He complained about the inequity of the disciplining of the other children. While this is a potential safeguarding issue, the group are probably being ultra cautious, which is hardly a surprise in this day and age. They would not want to be accused of "covering up" - so they tell their chain of command.Defending it by saying, he didn’t grab their genitals, he just “poked” them doesn’t make it any less serious.
Your sister may not be defending her son’s actions i your opinion, but everything you’re writing and saying says that she (and you) are doing exactly that.
I refer to my previous statement, that you would not be so calm if your nephew was on the receiving end of a genital poking.
Gavia said:
Despite some on here agreeing with you, grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable.
Can you show me an example of where someone said it was acceptable behaviour?The point many of us are making is that the incident as described does not warrant stigmatising a child as some sort of pint-sized sex offender.
Apologies to the OP but, given the way this has been escalated, I do wonder if there is more to this story than has been told. Perhaps a history of this sort of behaviour or the incident was more serious than has been described. The OP’s sister should talk to the Beaver leaders if she hasn’t already - they are volunteers but will have had training which would include dealing with behavioural issues among the young people. (I’ve got a training course this weekend on supporting children with special needs, for example.)
Gavia said:
Pistom said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Surely there's a simple way to determine if you're happy with your kid doing this...
If you had a daughter of that age, and she came home saying one of the boys had grabbed her there, what would your reaction be?
I don't think it's as simple as this but I can see where you are coming from.If you had a daughter of that age, and she came home saying one of the boys had grabbed her there, what would your reaction be?
More needs to be taken into consideration such as the kids ages and expected awareness.
Does that apply to all children no matter what? Same for boys and girls?
Gavia said:
Vaud said:
No, I was nuanced. Should versus definitely should know. A nearly 6 year old may not discriminate where they hit someone because they don't have the awareness or physiological understanding. An 8 year old probably still doesn't grasp the physiological but would have the social understanding.
That said, I have a 5 year old who knows it is very naughty to hit, and you should go and talk to an adult/teacher/carer, but kids vary.
Hitting isn’t great, but kids will be kids. Agree thatbparents should domall they can to dissuade itThat said, I have a 5 year old who knows it is very naughty to hit, and you should go and talk to an adult/teacher/carer, but kids vary.
Hitting in the private parts is an absolute no-no and should be immediately stopped
Grabbing down there is something that should never have happened and that’s the part of this thread that seems to be getting blurred.
The OP seems a bit vague on whether he punched or grabbed, but the fact that there’s uncertainty which it was is far from ideal.
Young children are more binary - they kicked me there, it hurt so I'll kick / punch them in the same place
Even as an adult, if you were being attacked would you try and hit someone in the knee cap, or the nuts?
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