Is this inappropriate behavior?
Discussion
Gavia said:
Lenovo said:
You honestly couldn't make this s
t up
My sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
GDPR? Are you for real?t upMy sister called me last night in tears, an officious woman from Scouting HQ in London had called her about the 'incident'. They basically told her she needs help with my nephew's behavior! My sister tried to explain what happened is an isolated incident and he has no problems at any of the other clubs/activities he attends. He also hasn't had any other problems at Beavers. The woman then said she is passing the details of the incident to Child Services, my sister objected to this. The woman said she was doing it as she wanted their advice and they could offer her help with his behavior, my sister again repeated she didn't need any help.
Isn't this a breach of GDPR? Passing personal information to a third party without consent? Or is there an exclusion for a child 'at risk' if so how can they claim he is at risk, two kids were kicking him and he struck them back???
Maybe there’s a point to what they’re saying. Despite some on here agreeing with you, grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable. This could probably be dealt with in a very short space of time this way, instead of objecting to everything.
I’m pretty certain that if it was your nephew on the receiving end, your indignation would be reversed.
I must be old fashioned..
When I was a lad, we had boys groups and girls groups and no (children) ever got accused of inappropriate behaviour.
I suspect that the main issue here is that the lad grabbed/poked a girl inappropriately after she assaulted him. If he had just kicked or poked or whatever, another boy in the ghoulies none of this would be happening.
It seems to me that girls are joining boys groups because they don't want to be treated as girls yet when it comes down to it, they have to be treated differently and the boy/man is always at fault when any kind of physical altercation with a girl occurs.
It is a good lesson for the lad though, in that girls are generally allowed to do whatever they want and not be held accountable
When I was a lad, we had boys groups and girls groups and no (children) ever got accused of inappropriate behaviour.
I suspect that the main issue here is that the lad grabbed/poked a girl inappropriately after she assaulted him. If he had just kicked or poked or whatever, another boy in the ghoulies none of this would be happening.
It seems to me that girls are joining boys groups because they don't want to be treated as girls yet when it comes down to it, they have to be treated differently and the boy/man is always at fault when any kind of physical altercation with a girl occurs.
It is a good lesson for the lad though, in that girls are generally allowed to do whatever they want and not be held accountable
Sounds like the cock shot and punt were due to the fact he was sat down and was the nearest bit of body of the attackers he could reach to stop them attacking him. In my day that would have been deemed fighting and dealt with accordingly.
fking safeguarding. Complete and utter fking bks.
punt were due to the fact he was sat down and was the nearest bit of body of the attackers he could reach to stop them attacking him. In my day that would have been deemed fighting and dealt with accordingly. f
king safeguarding. Complete and utter fking bks.Wow seven on the bounce supporting the OP saying poking someone’s genitals is OK. Brilliant.
For clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
For clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
Gavia said:
Wow seven on the bounce supporting the OP saying poking someone’s genitals is OK. Brilliant.
For clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
Too simplistic. I'd be asking my lad (or daughter) why they'd got a punch in the whatsits. If they replied that it was because they and their sibling were kicking the sFor clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
t out of someone sat on the floor I'd be telling them it served them right.However, you are perfectly correct in that it's inappropriate behaviour, but I think in this instance no more inappropriate than getting lumps kicked out of you by two others while you're sat on the floor. Both sides should have been punished for the violent acts they carried out. It appears the OP's sister has done that with her son, have the other two's parents chastised their children for what on the face of it seems an unprovoked attack on an innocent party? I thought bullying was taken seriously these days?
Two wrongs don’t make a right and whether the others have been punished or not (which they should’ve been) makes no difference to what the OP’s nephew did.
Let me be very clear. If my one of my nieces came home having been poked in their nether regions by another child, then I’d be fuming and expect the culprit to be dealt with quite severely. Irrespective of the provocation the poking is completely unacceptable.
If my niece turned out to have been bullying then that would equally need to be dealt with. That would not excuse the retaliatory poking in the genitals though.
I genuinely think some people on here live in a completely different world to me and have no concept of society and acceptable behaviour. I’m damn certain that if I started a thread from the other perspective there would be outrage at the genital poking.
Let me be very clear. If my one of my nieces came home having been poked in their nether regions by another child, then I’d be fuming and expect the culprit to be dealt with quite severely. Irrespective of the provocation the poking is completely unacceptable.
If my niece turned out to have been bullying then that would equally need to be dealt with. That would not excuse the retaliatory poking in the genitals though.
I genuinely think some people on here live in a completely different world to me and have no concept of society and acceptable behaviour. I’m damn certain that if I started a thread from the other perspective there would be outrage at the genital poking.
Gavia said:
Let me be very clear. If my one of my nieces came home having been poked in their nether regions by another child, then I’d be fuming and expect the culprit to be dealt with quite severely. Irrespective of the provocation the poking is completely unacceptable.
I think you are coming at this from the angle that the kid has done something bad and needs to be punished. I don't think that is the angle that the Beavers (or any other responsible body) would be coming at it from. There's a concern that the culprit needs to understand that it is not acceptable and not to be repeated, but their other concern (and I think the reason that they have involved child services) is where the child has learned the behaviour from. In this case, the OP thinks it's from another child. In other cases, it could be more sinister. The scale of the reaction is as much to do with safeguarding the child who did the grabbing as it is with the protection of the others.I think you're losing sight of the fact that this is a child aged 6 or 7.
Poking someone in the genitals is inappropriate - no one here is arguing that it is appropriate and you really need to stop pretending anyone is suggesting that it is. But I'm confident that I'm not the only one posting that is concerned about sexualising the behaviour of a child of that age - you can tell them that "poking" someone in the genitals is wrong (and, hopefully, they won't do it), but they won't really understand why it's wrong.
There is, rightly, a stigma attached to sexually inappropriate behaviour so damning a pre-pubescent child as some sort of sexual predator isn't something to be done lightly. As a parent, I can understand that children make mistakes and engage in behaviour that an adult would know wasn't right. If I make too much of a big deal about another child's inappropriate behaviour, there is a good chance that at some future point it will be my child that does something inappropriate - and I would hope they would be treated fairly and proportionately then.
And, as it happens, one of my sons (note son - from your points, it sounds as if you don't have children of your own) did go through a phase where his groups of friends would hit each other in the "peanuts". He was KS1 at the time so a similar age, and probably in Beavers (although it was his group of school friends who were doing this). We found out because he did it to me, thinking it was a game.
We talked to him about it, explained why it was inappropriate, and there hasn't been a repeat. We mentioned it to his friend's parents (including the parents of the boy who started the craze) and they had a similar discussion. It never even occurred to us to report that other child to social services. Although it was a few years ago now, my recollection is that the school approached it similarly - no drama, no hysteria, no stigma - and I certainly don't remember it being escalated in this way.
Poking someone in the genitals is inappropriate - no one here is arguing that it is appropriate and you really need to stop pretending anyone is suggesting that it is. But I'm confident that I'm not the only one posting that is concerned about sexualising the behaviour of a child of that age - you can tell them that "poking" someone in the genitals is wrong (and, hopefully, they won't do it), but they won't really understand why it's wrong.
There is, rightly, a stigma attached to sexually inappropriate behaviour so damning a pre-pubescent child as some sort of sexual predator isn't something to be done lightly. As a parent, I can understand that children make mistakes and engage in behaviour that an adult would know wasn't right. If I make too much of a big deal about another child's inappropriate behaviour, there is a good chance that at some future point it will be my child that does something inappropriate - and I would hope they would be treated fairly and proportionately then.
And, as it happens, one of my sons (note son - from your points, it sounds as if you don't have children of your own) did go through a phase where his groups of friends would hit each other in the "peanuts". He was KS1 at the time so a similar age, and probably in Beavers (although it was his group of school friends who were doing this). We found out because he did it to me, thinking it was a game.
We talked to him about it, explained why it was inappropriate, and there hasn't been a repeat. We mentioned it to his friend's parents (including the parents of the boy who started the craze) and they had a similar discussion. It never even occurred to us to report that other child to social services. Although it was a few years ago now, my recollection is that the school approached it similarly - no drama, no hysteria, no stigma - and I certainly don't remember it being escalated in this way.
Edited by Zigster on Thursday 20th September 13:05
Why do people keep repeating that I’m sexualising this? I’m not. I’m saying they are physical areas that are taboo. End of story. The child needs to fully understand this and stop. The areas are personal and private for a reason.
Punishment? Maybe, maybe not. However, it is correct that the reasons that child did this are understood and stopped. They may be naive and innocent, they may not be. Either way having an objective person involved to check and confirm all of this is arguably the correct way forward.
Too many people see the involvement of Child Secices as the end of the world. They don’t simply walk in and take the child into protective care.
Anyway my view is clearly in the minority and any opinion I have will get twisted and / or shouted down by the majority, not that the majority view on here will have any impact on what happens in the real world. My view may be equally wide of the mark, but the OP’s sister WILL be dealing with Child Services in the real world no matter how much support he gets on here.
Punishment? Maybe, maybe not. However, it is correct that the reasons that child did this are understood and stopped. They may be naive and innocent, they may not be. Either way having an objective person involved to check and confirm all of this is arguably the correct way forward.
Too many people see the involvement of Child Secices as the end of the world. They don’t simply walk in and take the child into protective care.
Anyway my view is clearly in the minority and any opinion I have will get twisted and / or shouted down by the majority, not that the majority view on here will have any impact on what happens in the real world. My view may be equally wide of the mark, but the OP’s sister WILL be dealing with Child Services in the real world no matter how much support he gets on here.
Gavia said:
Wow seven on the bounce supporting the OP saying poking someone’s genitals is OK. Brilliant.
For clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
For clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
Gavia said:
Grabbing down there is something that should never have happened and that’s the part of this thread that seems to be getting blurred.
Gavia said:
grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable
Sorry pal, but you are saying it's sexual.Yes, "inappropriate" doesn't necessarily mean sexual but in this context most people are seeing it that way.That, coupled with your use of phrases like "down there" and "genitals" means you are sexualising it.
If the retaliation - and lets be clear, it's retaliatiory not a provocative act - had been to punch or grab and arm would your reaction have been the same? No. Clearly it wouldn't.
But, in the context of the age of the children involved I think it should be treated exactly as if an arm, leg or whatever had been hit.
Your feeling that this act should be treated differently because it's "down there" (please, are you from the 1930's?), is exactly why you're mistaken.
All children involved should be punished in some way for fighting or hitting, nothing more.
Hackney said:
Gavia said:
Wow seven on the bounce supporting the OP saying poking someone’s genitals is OK. Brilliant.
For clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
For clarity, I’m not saying it’s sexual, I’m saying it’s inapproriate. Inappropriate doesn’t need to be sexual. If the Beavers see it that they should escalate this then that’s their prerogative.
If anyone thinks it should just be left to the parents to promise hat they’ve told him not to do it again, then that’s fine. However, not one of younhas answered this question.
If your young child came home and told you that another child had poked them where they shouldn’t then would you just shrug your shoulders and let it go?
Gavia said:
Grabbing down there is something that should never have happened and that’s the part of this thread that seems to be getting blurred.
Gavia said:
grabbing someone’s genitals is not acceptable
Sorry pal, but you are saying it's sexual.Yes, "inappropriate" doesn't necessarily mean sexual but in this context most people are seeing it that way.That, coupled with your use of phrases like "down there" and "genitals" means you are sexualising it.
If the retaliation - and lets be clear, it's retaliatiory not a provocative act - had been to punch or grab and arm would your reaction have been the same? No. Clearly it wouldn't.
But, in the context of the age of the children involved I think it should be treated exactly as if an arm, leg or whatever had been hit.
Your feeling that this act should be treated differently because it's "down there" (please, are you from the 1930's?), is exactly why you're mistaken.
All children involved should be punished in some way for fighting or hitting, nothing more.
If it were sexual, I’d be state that. I do not believe the child did it to give her a good finger banging (modern enough for you?). That would be sexual. However, the genitals are an area that should not be touched and children should be well aware of that.
If they’d hit the arm then it would be a completely different discussion.
You seem incapable of understanding what I’m saying. The child should not under any circumstances touch other people there. Punching them elsewhere is wrong too, but not as wrong. And that is not sexualising it.
Here’s an example if I kicked you in the balls it doesn’t mean I want to bum you, but it is seriously wrong. It’s significantly more wrong than me kicking you in the leg. If I poked you in the arm you’d be annoyed, if I poked you in the balls you’d be more annoyed, if I poked your wife in the fanny you’d erupt. Even if it turned out I’m gay and have no interest in the opposite sex so it can’t be sexual.
EDIT. I’ve already said the other children should be dealt with but not sure punishment is the only way forward.
Gavia said:
Too many people see the involvement of Child Secices as the end of the world. They don’t simply walk in and take the child into protective care.
Maybe not the end of the world, but extremely Kafkaesque and completely unnecessary given the context. Don't they have better things to do...?In police parlance 'words of advice to both parties, no further action'.
Gavia said:
andy_s said:
Maybe not the end of the world, but extremely Kafkaesque and completely unnecessary given the context. Don't they have better things to do...?
In police parlance 'words of advice to both parties, no further action'.
And what’s to say that isn’t what they’ll do? In police parlance 'words of advice to both parties, no further action'.
Worlds gone flipping mad! don't any of you remember being a kid, I used to scrap all the time and it was way worse than this incident.
why are people sexualizing this, that's the most disturbing part of the whole thread? id be more concerned if a 5 to 7 year old did understand why this is more inappropriate than just hitting someone.
there's your safeguarding issue whose teaching 5-7 year old the concept of sex and sexual assault and expecting them to understand it? what happen to childhood innocence?
I know there called beavers, but jeez get a grip.
why are people sexualizing this, that's the most disturbing part of the whole thread? id be more concerned if a 5 to 7 year old did understand why this is more inappropriate than just hitting someone.
there's your safeguarding issue whose teaching 5-7 year old the concept of sex and sexual assault and expecting them to understand it? what happen to childhood innocence?
I know there called beavers, but jeez get a grip.
I would suggest child services are involved to protect the Scouting movement against confused accusations later down the line? In other words a formal record of the incident, logged in perpetuity. Let us not forget that, in a similar manner to the Catholic priesthood, the Scouting movement has always been a good place for paedophiles to hide in clear view.
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