speed camera obsession
Discussion
So its been a while since ive done any real mileage around the country. somehow the magnitude of the obsession with speed cameras passed me by. it feels like almost every stretch of the motorways i went though to Scotland and back were littered with speed camera signs, the off-gantry cameras to the side like you see on the M3/Ma/many others, traditional gantry cameras, you name it.
Meanwhile the mrs smashed into some brickwork that was spewed across the motorway in the hire car, highway patrol nowhere in sight in the 30 mins it took me to unpack and install the spare (I bloody hate space savers), and there were a few other near misses in this time.
I saw a landrover undertake and then side-swipe a 3 series, a mondeo doing 50 in the right lane of an otherwise empty motorway, trucks driving up the arses of cars, the list goes on. Not to mention the mess on the M25 that almost unfolded when two lanes said 30mph and the other two 50.
I can't be the only one that thinks the focus on speed is becoming comical meanwhile the actual causes of a lot of the accidents out there are getting ignored?
Would love to see some stats or studies of mway crashes in proximity to cameras etc if anyone has any?
Meanwhile the mrs smashed into some brickwork that was spewed across the motorway in the hire car, highway patrol nowhere in sight in the 30 mins it took me to unpack and install the spare (I bloody hate space savers), and there were a few other near misses in this time.
I saw a landrover undertake and then side-swipe a 3 series, a mondeo doing 50 in the right lane of an otherwise empty motorway, trucks driving up the arses of cars, the list goes on. Not to mention the mess on the M25 that almost unfolded when two lanes said 30mph and the other two 50.
I can't be the only one that thinks the focus on speed is becoming comical meanwhile the actual causes of a lot of the accidents out there are getting ignored?
Would love to see some stats or studies of mway crashes in proximity to cameras etc if anyone has any?
As we all know, the obsession with lowering speed limits and adding cameras is all about revenue generation and nothing to do with “safety”. The “safety” argument is so thin, it really is laughable.
But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
livinginasia said:
As we all know, the obsession with lowering speed limits and adding cameras is all about revenue generation and nothing to do with “safety”. The “safety” argument is so thin, it really is laughable.
But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
Even from official figures if no one exceeded the speed limit accidents would only fall by 5%. Drivers who exceed the speed limit are far less likely to be involved in an accident.But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
Advanced driver training reduces accidents by 30-40 percent but no push for this from the UK government.
Collision avoidancr systems reduce accidents by 27 percent. The government hasn't made them mandatory even on cars where they are already available, they are relying on a commitment from the industry to make them standard from 2022.
Despite all this I don't think its about revenue generation, they barely cover their costs in most cases, however barely covering the cost does make it easier and cheaper to achieve.
Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 19th September 08:09
Most drivers these days dont speed the average motorway speed for cars these days is sub 70 in all honesty. All the automation has meant a massive reduction in roads policing, to be 99% non existent, the police appear to be a reactionary force these days.
Hence why a vast percentage of drivers can get away with being on their phones, wandering around in out of their lanes with what looks like a drunk driver at the wheel & I'd say its bordering 5-10% of all the drivers on the roads currently.
If you drive on A & B roads lots you are at very high risk of coming into close contact with one. I have experienced multiple near head on's just recently with drivers with their heads down.
Statistics however, we have to wait a few years to see a trend then & only then might there be a change.
If you drive for a living the risk factor is massive I'd say
Hence why a vast percentage of drivers can get away with being on their phones, wandering around in out of their lanes with what looks like a drunk driver at the wheel & I'd say its bordering 5-10% of all the drivers on the roads currently.
If you drive on A & B roads lots you are at very high risk of coming into close contact with one. I have experienced multiple near head on's just recently with drivers with their heads down.
Statistics however, we have to wait a few years to see a trend then & only then might there be a change.
If you drive for a living the risk factor is massive I'd say
It's an easy win is why.
It's cheap and easy (relatively speaking) to pop a speed camera up, or stick a van on a bridge. The cost to hit ratio means it pays for itself and then some.
It's also really easily proved using the camera, with very little possible mitigation/complexity. And then you've got the "awareness" course which rake more income in.
Finally, it's easy to justify. While the petrolhead will says it innapropriate speed, the rest of the population have swallowed the "speed kills" mantra, and the law is the law.
Counter this with the need to pay for a couple of bodies in a car roving the roads all day, likely not catching very much, and not therefore making much money, means the government cuts reducing police numbers can't be escaped and so less police on the road.
All in my opinion, and with no facts whatsoever to back it up
It's cheap and easy (relatively speaking) to pop a speed camera up, or stick a van on a bridge. The cost to hit ratio means it pays for itself and then some.
It's also really easily proved using the camera, with very little possible mitigation/complexity. And then you've got the "awareness" course which rake more income in.
Finally, it's easy to justify. While the petrolhead will says it innapropriate speed, the rest of the population have swallowed the "speed kills" mantra, and the law is the law.
Counter this with the need to pay for a couple of bodies in a car roving the roads all day, likely not catching very much, and not therefore making much money, means the government cuts reducing police numbers can't be escaped and so less police on the road.
All in my opinion, and with no facts whatsoever to back it up
phil4 said:
It's cheap and easy (relatively speaking) to pop a speed camera up, or stick a van on a bridge. The cost to hit ratio means it pays for itself and then some.
All in my opinion, and with no facts whatsoever to back it up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41869134All in my opinion, and with no facts whatsoever to back it up
November 2017: half of cameras switched off. amongst the reasons given, cuts in road safety grants and very expensive to run digital cameras.
Numbers of dedicated roads policing officers have been falling nationally for the best part of fifteen+ years now, which covers a range of governments and pre-dates the heavy cuts of the last 5-6 years and probably reflects the soaring demand for police attendance in areas other than roads policing.
I live close to the A12, not that far from its junction with the M25. Turn right and it's about 10 miles to the M11, left and about the same to the Dartford crossing.
There isn't a day go past without there being a major accident and subsequent congestion on at least one of these roads. Most the crashes seem to occur at busy times when I doubt you could get anywhere near the speed limit.
My experience of driving on these roads is that the levels of stupidity and impatience are such that they must be the primary causes of incidents. Of course, speed doesn't cause accidents, it just stops you getting out of them. But the causes are elsewhere.
The trouble is, you can't fine people for impatience.
There isn't a day go past without there being a major accident and subsequent congestion on at least one of these roads. Most the crashes seem to occur at busy times when I doubt you could get anywhere near the speed limit.
My experience of driving on these roads is that the levels of stupidity and impatience are such that they must be the primary causes of incidents. Of course, speed doesn't cause accidents, it just stops you getting out of them. But the causes are elsewhere.
The trouble is, you can't fine people for impatience.
On the news this morning (BBC East Midlands) it was reported that local government (Leics, Notts?) are campaigning the Government to directly get the 'revenue' from cameras, stating that they can't afford to install any more otherwise.
If it happens and they become self-financing then we can expect blanket coverage.
'Ending the war on the motorist'...?
If it happens and they become self-financing then we can expect blanket coverage.
'Ending the war on the motorist'...?
livinginasia said:
As we all know, the obsession with lowering speed limits and adding cameras is all about revenue generation and nothing to do with “safety”. The “safety” argument is so thin, it really is laughable.
Whilst I agree, taking it to the degree they want....If you are stationary there is zero chance of an accident / injury.
If everyone drove at 20mph there is very little chance of serious injury.
It conveniently ignores the fact that for the last 50+ years we have relied on travelling long distances at considerably faster speeds BUT if you are ONLY focussed on injuries then a blanket 20mph is hard to argue against.
On my commute to work towards central Leeds which is around 50mins I probably see daily between 15-20 people engrossed in mobile phones whilst driving, 5-10 people middle lane hogging or extreme tailgating, and at least 2 or 3 examples of driving that could be considered so downright dangerous, malicious, bullying, aggressive etc. that it simply beggars belief and I can't believe no-one was seriously injured! Yet most of this is below the speed limit and there is rarely (if ever) a policeman in sight!
So Police, here's an idea if you want to make some money - why not just simply drive round Leeds (or any other city) in rush hour in an undercover car or van with cameras on it? With the above happening you'd be raking in the fines on a daily basis.
Average speed limits and smart motorways for me tend to make driving much more stressful. No longer can you set a speed that's appropriate for conditions, but instead you're side by side with traffic traveling a similar speed for long periods of time, whilst at the same time having to constantly check the speedometer rather than the road ahead, behind and to the side. There is the ever present threat of cameras hidden in gantries to look out for, increasing the workload of the driver and consequentially I find long journeys much more tiring than they used to be.
So Police, here's an idea if you want to make some money - why not just simply drive round Leeds (or any other city) in rush hour in an undercover car or van with cameras on it? With the above happening you'd be raking in the fines on a daily basis.
Average speed limits and smart motorways for me tend to make driving much more stressful. No longer can you set a speed that's appropriate for conditions, but instead you're side by side with traffic traveling a similar speed for long periods of time, whilst at the same time having to constantly check the speedometer rather than the road ahead, behind and to the side. There is the ever present threat of cameras hidden in gantries to look out for, increasing the workload of the driver and consequentially I find long journeys much more tiring than they used to be.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 19th September 14:30
Andy20vt said:
On my commute to work towards central Leeds which is around 50mins I probably see daily between 15-20 people engrossed in mobile phones whilst driving, 5-10 people middle lane hogging or extreme tailgating, and at least 2 or 3 examples of driving that could be considered so downright dangerous, malicious, bullying, aggressive etc. that it simply beggars belief and I can't believe no-one was seriously injured! Yet most of this is below the speed limit and there is rarely (if ever) a policeman in sight!
So Police, here's an idea if you want to make some money - why not just simply drive round Leeds (or any other city) in rush hour in an undercover car or van with cameras on it? With the above happening you'd be raking in the fines on a daily basis.
Average speed limits and smart motorways for me tend to make driving much more stressful. No longer can you set a speed that's appropriate for conditions, but instead you're side by side with traffic traveling a similar speed for long periods of time, whilst at the same time having to constantly check the speedometer rather than the road ahead, behind and to the side. There is the ever present threat of cameras hidden in gantries to look out for, increasing the workload of the driver and consequentially I find long journeys much more tiring than they used to be.
I couldn’t agree more Andy, and I believe the frustration of driving today is what makes people angry and impatient and causes the frequent accidents. This “one track” focus on speed is a terrible decision.
So Police, here's an idea if you want to make some money - why not just simply drive round Leeds (or any other city) in rush hour in an undercover car or van with cameras on it? With the above happening you'd be raking in the fines on a daily basis.
Average speed limits and smart motorways for me tend to make driving much more stressful. No longer can you set a speed that's appropriate for conditions, but instead you're side by side with traffic traveling a similar speed for long periods of time, whilst at the same time having to constantly check the speedometer rather than the road ahead, behind and to the side. There is the ever present threat of cameras hidden in gantries to look out for, increasing the workload of the driver and consequentially I find long journeys much more tiring than they used to be.
I couldn’t agree more Andy, and I believe the frustration of driving today is what makes people angry and impatient and causes the frequent accidents. This “one track” focus on speed is a terrible decision.
Edited by Andy20vt on Wednesday 19th September 14:30
livinginasia said:
As we all know, the obsession with lowering speed limits and adding cameras is all about revenue generation and nothing to do with “safety”. The “safety” argument is so thin, it really is laughable.
But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
That's right YOU know these things for a fact?But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
And you're NOT wrong?
You need to look up the meaning of opinion in the dictionary.
oyster said:
livinginasia said:
As we all know, the obsession with lowering speed limits and adding cameras is all about revenue generation and nothing to do with “safety”. The “safety” argument is so thin, it really is laughable.
But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
That's right YOU know these things for a fact?But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
And you're NOT wrong?
.
IIRC the last ones I saw stated that speed was the main cause in less than 5% of accidents.
Andy20vt said:
On my commute to work towards central Leeds which is around 50mins I probably see daily between 15-20 people engrossed in mobile phones whilst driving, 5-10 people middle lane hogging or extreme tailgating, and at least 2 or 3 examples of driving that could be considered so downright dangerous, malicious, bullying, aggressive etc. that it simply beggars belief and I can't believe no-one was seriously injured! Yet most of this is below the speed limit and there is rarely (if ever) a policeman in sight!
So Police, here's an idea if you want to make some money - why not just simply drive round Leeds (or any other city) in rush hour in an undercover car or van with cameras on it? With the above happening you'd be raking in the fines on a daily basis.
Average speed limits and smart motorways for me tend to make driving much more stressful. No longer can you set a speed that's appropriate for conditions, but instead you're side by side with traffic traveling a similar speed for long periods of time, whilst at the same time having to constantly check the speedometer rather than the road ahead, behind and to the side. There is the ever present threat of cameras hidden in gantries to look out for, increasing the workload of the driver and consequentially I find long journeys much more tiring than they used to be.
Sadly the days of police being able to be pro active are long gone. There aren't enough to attend grade one calls. You need to speak to your MP! So Police, here's an idea if you want to make some money - why not just simply drive round Leeds (or any other city) in rush hour in an undercover car or van with cameras on it? With the above happening you'd be raking in the fines on a daily basis.
Average speed limits and smart motorways for me tend to make driving much more stressful. No longer can you set a speed that's appropriate for conditions, but instead you're side by side with traffic traveling a similar speed for long periods of time, whilst at the same time having to constantly check the speedometer rather than the road ahead, behind and to the side. There is the ever present threat of cameras hidden in gantries to look out for, increasing the workload of the driver and consequentially I find long journeys much more tiring than they used to be.
Edited by Andy20vt on Wednesday 19th September 14:30
ghe13rte said:
V8RX7 said:
oyster said:
livinginasia said:
As we all know, the obsession with lowering speed limits and adding cameras is all about revenue generation and nothing to do with “safety”. The “safety” argument is so thin, it really is laughable.
But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
That's right YOU know these things for a fact?But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
And you're NOT wrong?
.
IIRC the last ones I saw stated that speed was the main cause in less than 5% of accidents.
Motorway driving isn’t stressful at all if you simply comply with the law. What I see very often is s
t-driving from people thinking they are in the Gumball rally. What really is stressful is one of your speedy mates holding thousands of drivers up while their rally car is being swept off the motorway in pieces.No doubt you know that Norway has made massive improvements in road safety during the past decade and now has the safest roads in Europe. Have they done this whilst adopting the speed kills mantra spouted by the hard of thinking? Their jump from 6th in the EU league to number 1 was achieved by education and training...……...and they INCREASED their motorway limit in 2014.
Out of interest, do you ever read the EU's PIN data on road safety? You might be slightly less vocal on the PH speed related threads if your arguments related to facts rather than simplistic juvenile anecdotes.
https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/PIN_ANNUAL_REPO...
Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 19th September 19:42
Crackie said:
ghe13rte said:
V8RX7 said:
oyster said:
livinginasia said:
As we all know, the obsession with lowering speed limits and adding cameras is all about revenue generation and nothing to do with “safety”. The “safety” argument is so thin, it really is laughable.
But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
That's right YOU know these things for a fact?But that’s the world we live in unfortunately, a few obsessed campaigners really do influence and make the rules for the majority. Sad times.
And before all the members of “Brake” jump on this thread and tell me I am wrong, forget it - I am not.
And you're NOT wrong?
.
IIRC the last ones I saw stated that speed was the main cause in less than 5% of accidents.
Motorway driving isn’t stressful at all if you simply comply with the law. What I see very often is s
t-driving from people thinking they are in the Gumball rally. What really is stressful is one of your speedy mates holding thousands of drivers up while their rally car is being swept off the motorway in pieces.No doubt you know that Norway has made massive improvements in road safety during the past decade and now has the safest roads in Europe. Have they done this whilst adopting the speed kills mantra spouted by the hard of thinking? Their jump from 6th in the EU league to number 1 was achieved by education and training...……...and they INCREASED their motorway limit in 2014.
Out of interest, do you ever read the EU's PIN data on road safety? You might be slightly less vocal on the PH speed related threads if your arguments related to facts rather than simplistic juvenile anecdotes.
https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/PIN_ANNUAL_REPO...
Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 19th September 19:42
Do you read them?
280E said:
Which might have been avoided had she been driving more slowly
Nope - it would have been avoided if she had greater distance between her and the truck in front, as she would have had time to see the bricks and avoid; which she did not. Shew as actually going 20 mph under the national speed limit.. Partly what started this rant/quest for info/opinion 
She was no closer or further than most of the cars in the area - all of which were too close imo (ie under 2 seconds)
Edited by up_shift on Wednesday 19th September 22:54
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