£80000 for civil rape conviction
Discussion
La Liga said:
The victim has spoken to the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...
It's interesting how she describes feeling like she was in control during the civil proceedings as opposed to the criminal ones.
It is interesting, but not surprising. It's interesting how she describes feeling like she was in control during the civil proceedings as opposed to the criminal ones.
The points raised about ‘not proven’ being an easy out, a conscience massager, has been raised before and seems logical. Blame someone else. As others have said, the report makes it difficult to believe that the jury were unconvinced.
Derek Smith said:
It is interesting, but not surprising.
The points raised about ‘not proven’ being an easy out, a conscience massager, has been raised before and seems logical. Blame someone else. As others have said, the report makes it difficult to believe that the jury were unconvinced.
I have to say I read the civil case from her legal team and if the key facts aren't disputed by the guy it becomes difficult to see how what transpired on the balance of probabilities was consensual and his actions put suspicion on him.The points raised about ‘not proven’ being an easy out, a conscience massager, has been raised before and seems logical. Blame someone else. As others have said, the report makes it difficult to believe that the jury were unconvinced.
She was clearly quite drunk, she had injuries to her tongue and necessaries and there was a significant amount of blood.
He left just after the incident took her phone and would not speak to her afterwards so his behaviour does not seem reasonable, or the acts of a guy after a consensual one night stand.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I'm sure it's very distressing for any man who finds himself in the situation of being falsely accused, but I really don't think it's the big problem it's painted out to be on PH.
That is most likely because it hasn't happened to you.ONLY when you are falsely accused do you spend so much time to seek out details of other cases, press reports, online forums, and legal advice sites, and discover how widespread the problem is, and also how distressing it is for the VICTIMS of false allegations.
You are also faced with a police investigation that is hindered by lack of resources to look into aspects they either don't think important, or don't even realise could be important, and fear that like others claim, might lead to you being found guilty of a crime you did not commit!
There are two aspects to being falsely accused which are hugely stressful.
Firstly you are faced with having to answer questions from the police about an alleged offence which you know never took place - so question why they appear to think you were involved.
They do nothing to make you think anything other than they think you are guilty... they don't suggest where you can seek advice from on how to rebut the allegation, or deal with the trauma you feel, and they treat your accuser as a witness, who while they might suspect is making an unfounded allegation, they do nothing to impart that belief to them or you.
Secondly you face suspicion from friends and colleagues, perhaps even some members of your family who think the very fact that the police are questioning you means you are guilty of SOMETHING.
You have to take time off work to seek legal advice, attend interviews, and in some cases, police actually come to your place of work in the very first instance - as in my case.
This stress is shared by family and true friends... many of whom share your fears, some even more so.
My case was historic - over 30 years had elapsed. My accuser had stated an offence took place at a location which in 1984 had been a retail shop, and was now a restaurant. It was ME that spent time digging out historical planning records that showed that my accusers descriptions to the police were incorrect, and I was told by my solicitor to keep this to myself in case it went to court!
I contacted the Victim Support Agency and told them I was a victim of a false allegation - but was told they were unable to help ME!
Very few women who make false allegations are ever investigated thoroughly, and even fewer are brought to court, most likely for fear that genuine victims might be put off reporting their own rape... so I suppose it is hardly surprising that you don't think it's the big problem it's painted out to be on PH, but you would if you had to take the trouble to find out!
Edited by Mill Wheel on Tuesday 16th October 15:09
And if your false claim does go to court and you're acquitted and you earn anything remotely sensible, you'll have had to fork out for your own private legal defence costs and you'll be reimbursed about 20% of the cost.
A serious allegation that goes to crown court trial could literally see you lose your house to keep your innocence.
A serious allegation that goes to crown court trial could literally see you lose your house to keep your innocence.
janesmith1950 said:
And if your false claim does go to court and you're acquitted and you earn anything remotely sensible, you'll have had to fork out for your own private legal defence costs and you'll be reimbursed 20% of the cost.
A serious allegation that goes to crown court trial could literally see you lose your house to keep your innocence.
Pretty much what I pointed out earlier in this thread. Those saying that false accusations are rare. That’s bloody irrelevant. It nearly bankrupted my stepdad and mum. I would love to get my hands on the lying A serious allegation that goes to crown court trial could literally see you lose your house to keep your innocence.
that falsely accused my stepdad. More so I would like to kick the living st out of the cps lawyer who decided to withhold evidence until forced by the judge to hand it over. I’ve always said I would never strike a women unless it was in self defence, I wouldn’t even lay a finger on my ex wife but those two lying conniving s I would happily give a punch in the face. MB140 said:
Pretty much what I pointed out earlier in this thread. Those saying that false accusations are rare. That’s bloody irrelevant. It nearly bankrupted my stepdad and mum. I would love to get my hands on the lying that falsely accused my stepdad. More so I would like to kick the living st out of the cps lawyer who decided to withhold evidence until forced by the judge to hand it over. I’ve always said I would never strike a women unless it was in self defence, I wouldn’t even lay a finger on my ex wife but those two lying conniving s I would happily give a punch in the face.
I know someone accused after they split up with their gf after she said she cheated after they age sex. The truth Came our two days after the aallegation and she withdrew after her series of events was challenged as it fell apart. She was cautioned and let go. that falsely accused my stepdad. More so I would like to kick the living st out of the cps lawyer who decided to withhold evidence until forced by the judge to hand it over. I’ve always said I would never strike a women unless it was in self defence, I wouldn’t even lay a finger on my ex wife but those two lying conniving s I would happily give a punch in the face. She still maintains to some people it happened including when she received a group email from a friends and my friend relplied and then her boss emailed my friend asking him to never email her again! She blocked him in Facebook. My friend told his now wife on their first date the whole story and she still says to this day she took a while to trust him. Also they have has rows and she will in anger sometimes bring it up!
A false allegation never goes away.
I believe that false rape accusations are common.
I know of quite a few examples where someone has been playing away and has had to cover up, been embarrassed about their behaviour, or been upset at rejection and looking for revenge.
Usually they haven't gone much further than confiding in a friend or a group, but on a couple of occasions the lies have had to carry on when friends, or the partner, has pushed them forward to contact the police.
I know of quite a few examples where someone has been playing away and has had to cover up, been embarrassed about their behaviour, or been upset at rejection and looking for revenge.
Usually they haven't gone much further than confiding in a friend or a group, but on a couple of occasions the lies have had to carry on when friends, or the partner, has pushed them forward to contact the police.
Well it appears that he has found a way not to pay the lady in question the £80k. I can't decide if I'm happy or angry about it. My initial feelings were that he shouldn't have had to pay her the £80k in the first place. He was found not guilty/not proven (lets not start another argument over that).
Either way he lost and the courts said he should, but £80k is a lot of money (life changing level of debt to most people for something he wasn't found guilty of). I'm sure the consequences of being declared bankrupt will have an influence on his life but probably less so than spending the next 20 years paying it off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...
Either way he lost and the courts said he should, but £80k is a lot of money (life changing level of debt to most people for something he wasn't found guilty of). I'm sure the consequences of being declared bankrupt will have an influence on his life but probably less so than spending the next 20 years paying it off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...
MB140 said:
Well it appears that he has found a way not to pay the lady in question the £80k. I can't decide if I'm happy or angry about it. My initial feelings were that he shouldn't have had to pay her the £80k in the first place. He was found not guilty/not proven (lets not start another argument over that).
Either way he lost and the courts said he should, but £80k is a lot of money (life changing level of debt to most people for something he wasn't found guilty of). I'm sure the consequences of being declared bankrupt will have an influence on his life but probably less so than spending the next 20 years paying it off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...
Scotland is different so I have no idea. If this was England and Wales debts arising from damages for personal injury are not discharged by going bankrupt. Either way he lost and the courts said he should, but £80k is a lot of money (life changing level of debt to most people for something he wasn't found guilty of). I'm sure the consequences of being declared bankrupt will have an influence on his life but probably less so than spending the next 20 years paying it off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-e...
Sa Calobra said:
Yes but in such a case. It casts doubt on his character for the rest of his days.
What do you mean 'in such a case'?Beyond reasonable doubt is there to ensure we don't send innocent people to prison, the flipside is that guilty people may walk free.
Civil cases are brought against people all the time, the burden of proof is lower because we're not sending people to prison and the outcome is decided by a judge on 'the balance of probabilities'. Are you against civil cases being brought against criminals, e.g., higher echelon organised criminals who are so far removed from actual criminality that the only way to get them is through civil cases such as proceeds of crime?
For example:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/crim...
Don't know how accurate this is, but I saw this yesterday:
http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_a...
Paints a bleak picture of false allegations.
It isn't something I've personally fretted over, but I have in the past been falsely accused by a crazy ex of domestic abuse. It never went anywhere, but there are crazy people out there who will try and weaponise the police and legal system against other people. For that reason, I think I agree with defendants having anonymity, at least until they are found guilty.
I also think that there should be serious efforts made to investigate and prosecute any false allegations, and that the penalties should be similar to what the initially accused would have faced. This would only apply if a case could be proven that there was a deliberately false allegation, so it shouldn't affect anyone making genuine claims.
http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_a...
Paints a bleak picture of false allegations.
It isn't something I've personally fretted over, but I have in the past been falsely accused by a crazy ex of domestic abuse. It never went anywhere, but there are crazy people out there who will try and weaponise the police and legal system against other people. For that reason, I think I agree with defendants having anonymity, at least until they are found guilty.
I also think that there should be serious efforts made to investigate and prosecute any false allegations, and that the penalties should be similar to what the initially accused would have faced. This would only apply if a case could be proven that there was a deliberately false allegation, so it shouldn't affect anyone making genuine claims.
That's a US based website, try something more relevant;
Also, apparently you're more likely to be raped as a man than falsely accused of raping a woman;
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-...
The Week said:
In one of the largest and most comprehensive studies ever conducted on the issue, the Home Office concluded that about 3% of rape cases in England and Wales probably involved false allegations.
The findings tally with a 2012 Ministry of Justice study, which estimated that 3% of 299 rape reports analysed were perceived to be malicious claims.
Separate research carried out by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) during a 17-month period between 2011 and 2012 found that there were 5,651 prosecutions for rape in England and Wales. By comparison, there were just 35 prosecutions for making false allegations of rape during that period.
The Home Office study also revealed that police officers often distrust victims, and believe the proportion of false claims to be much higher than it is in reality.
A “culture of suspicion remains within the police”, even among some of those who are specialists in rape investigations, according to the 2005 report.
Keir Starmer QC, the then director of public prosecutions, said false reports were “serious but rare”, and warned that a “misplaced belief” that these claims are commonplace can undermine efforts by police and prosecutors to investigate such crimes.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/fact-check/97362/fact-check-the-truth-about-false-rape-claimsThe findings tally with a 2012 Ministry of Justice study, which estimated that 3% of 299 rape reports analysed were perceived to be malicious claims.
Separate research carried out by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) during a 17-month period between 2011 and 2012 found that there were 5,651 prosecutions for rape in England and Wales. By comparison, there were just 35 prosecutions for making false allegations of rape during that period.
The Home Office study also revealed that police officers often distrust victims, and believe the proportion of false claims to be much higher than it is in reality.
A “culture of suspicion remains within the police”, even among some of those who are specialists in rape investigations, according to the 2005 report.
Keir Starmer QC, the then director of public prosecutions, said false reports were “serious but rare”, and warned that a “misplaced belief” that these claims are commonplace can undermine efforts by police and prosecutors to investigate such crimes.
Also, apparently you're more likely to be raped as a man than falsely accused of raping a woman;
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-...
EazyDuz said:
Some men are filthy animals, we should respect women and pay her if she wants paying.
I'd shake her hand for being so brave.
for not proven 80k seems alot!I'd shake her hand for being so brave.
Should have been more like 10k as having read the story he at best looks like a idiot.
80k was crazy as he is not a man of means or from a rich family how is he suppose to pay that!
No one wins with such a crazy award! Scots seem to have gone for a USA style approach.
surveyor_101 said:
for not proven 80k seems alot!
Should have been more like 10k as having read the story he at best looks like a idiot.
80k was crazy as he is not a man of means or from a rich family how is he suppose to pay that!
No one wins with such a crazy award! Scots seem to have gone for a USA style approach.
The wealth of the man makes no difference. Should have been more like 10k as having read the story he at best looks like a idiot.
80k was crazy as he is not a man of means or from a rich family how is he suppose to pay that!
No one wins with such a crazy award! Scots seem to have gone for a USA style approach.
EazyDuz said:
surveyor_101 said:
for not proven 80k seems alot!
Should have been more like 10k as having read the story he at best looks like a idiot.
80k was crazy as he is not a man of means or from a rich family how is he suppose to pay that!
No one wins with such a crazy award! Scots seem to have gone for a USA style approach.
The wealth of the man makes no difference. Should have been more like 10k as having read the story he at best looks like a idiot.
80k was crazy as he is not a man of means or from a rich family how is he suppose to pay that!
No one wins with such a crazy award! Scots seem to have gone for a USA style approach.
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