Private car sale - Letter of court action
Discussion
moooooobss said:
Lets hope a judge would see the details of the sale the same way that you guys have.
They would. Because they’re interested in facts and the law, rather than what someone else may or may not think is ‘fair’.As said above, ignore any correspondence unless court action commences (which it won’t unless they’re deranged, or the story isn’t as you’ve told it).
You should be served with a letter before action, if they file and have not done this you can get the claim thrown out and they lose their fee for submitting a claim.
The court will try to get you to negotiate out of court, or offer mediation. It might be worth offering £50 and state that the law is on your side. If you end up in court you can say this offer was refused.
I wouldn't stop communicating the court can look badly on this.
The court will try to get you to negotiate out of court, or offer mediation. It might be worth offering £50 and state that the law is on your side. If you end up in court you can say this offer was refused.
I wouldn't stop communicating the court can look badly on this.
Thats What She Said said:
Some people have no shame. The self entitlement these days is staggering.
So the buyers have had 3 or 4 months use of the horsebox during the summer. Then decide they wont be using it much over winter, so would much rather have their money back. To top it all, they expect you to pay for the repair and upkeep of the vehicle while it was in their care?
Cease all communication with them, as it only encourages them. They already think they have you on the hook. Wait for any official court papers to turn up, and then take it from there.
Or little Chardonnay is now bored of the horse mummy and daddy bought for her now summer is over and as it's been sold on they have no more use for the horse box So the buyers have had 3 or 4 months use of the horsebox during the summer. Then decide they wont be using it much over winter, so would much rather have their money back. To top it all, they expect you to pay for the repair and upkeep of the vehicle while it was in their care?
Cease all communication with them, as it only encourages them. They already think they have you on the hook. Wait for any official court papers to turn up, and then take it from there.
Don't fret about the court case, it is very informal, you'll sit either side of a judge who will listen to both parties. They will give their evidence then you will have your change to reply. Have as much evidential evidence as to the condition of the vehicle, have the wording of the ad.
Make sure you are prepared, have the mileage of the car when it was sold handy. You will have your chance to speak and you tell it to the judge not to the other party.
Relax and keep calm and keep to the facts, and only the facts do not elaborate start talking off at a tangent or offering any extra information or do anything but answer the question you are asked. Keep it simple and short.
The result will be what it will be the judge will give a balanced decision. Make sure you attend if there is a hearing, failing to attend will count against you. Don't worry. Worst that could happen is that you have to give a refund, but that is unlikely as they have been in possession of the vehicle for four months. Alternatively you could be asked to pay the bill for any long standing problems there were.
Make sure you are prepared, have the mileage of the car when it was sold handy. You will have your chance to speak and you tell it to the judge not to the other party.
Relax and keep calm and keep to the facts, and only the facts do not elaborate start talking off at a tangent or offering any extra information or do anything but answer the question you are asked. Keep it simple and short.
The result will be what it will be the judge will give a balanced decision. Make sure you attend if there is a hearing, failing to attend will count against you. Don't worry. Worst that could happen is that you have to give a refund, but that is unlikely as they have been in possession of the vehicle for four months. Alternatively you could be asked to pay the bill for any long standing problems there were.
Edited by LarsG on Monday 8th October 22:07
Edited by LarsG on Monday 8th October 22:09
lost in espace said:
You should be served with a letter before action, if they file and have not done this you can get the claim thrown out and they lose their fee for submitting a claim.
The court will try to get you to negotiate out of court, or offer mediation. It might be worth offering £50 and state that the law is on your side. If you end up in court you can say this offer was refused.
I wouldn't stop communicating the court can look badly on this.
First bit is accurate. the rest is nonsense.The court will try to get you to negotiate out of court, or offer mediation. It might be worth offering £50 and state that the law is on your side. If you end up in court you can say this offer was refused.
I wouldn't stop communicating the court can look badly on this.
OP dont offer anyone anything. It could be argued that this is an admission of liability.
Dont communicate any more. You have already stated your position. Any more is negotiation.
Thats What She Said said:
lost in espace said:
You should be served with a letter before action, if they file and have not done this you can get the claim thrown out and they lose their fee for submitting a claim.
The court will try to get you to negotiate out of court, or offer mediation. It might be worth offering £50 and state that the law is on your side. If you end up in court you can say this offer was refused.
I wouldn't stop communicating the court can look badly on this.
First bit is accurate. the rest is nonsense.The court will try to get you to negotiate out of court, or offer mediation. It might be worth offering £50 and state that the law is on your side. If you end up in court you can say this offer was refused.
I wouldn't stop communicating the court can look badly on this.
The only letter worth taking notice of is the one from the court.
What a PITA - I feel for you OP.
Had a similar issue in 2013 when a relative sold a car for spares or repairs for £300 on Gumtree.
Someone from Lincolnshire came to see it in Surrey with his dad who was "a mechanic". They inspected it, test drove it and bought it with the intention of driving it home on trade plates, but they didn't get off the M25 before it "broke" (I believe it threw a rod)!
After some abusive phone calls my relative got a letter from the buyer - we just wrote back telling them they weren't getting anything and we'd be happy to see them in Court.
Thankfully that was that.
Had a similar issue in 2013 when a relative sold a car for spares or repairs for £300 on Gumtree.
Someone from Lincolnshire came to see it in Surrey with his dad who was "a mechanic". They inspected it, test drove it and bought it with the intention of driving it home on trade plates, but they didn't get off the M25 before it "broke" (I believe it threw a rod)!
After some abusive phone calls my relative got a letter from the buyer - we just wrote back telling them they weren't getting anything and we'd be happy to see them in Court.
Thankfully that was that.
I won’t give unqualified legal opinion on the thread, suffice to say I feel for you OP. Sounds like little darling doesn’t like pony riding after all and now the winter is here they want out. Rather than sell it on (which I’ve no doubt they could easily, it’s entry level money for a horsebox) they are trying it on with you.
moooooobss said:
Thanks to everyone who replied with advice. We are going to respond explaining that the vehicle was in full working order when sold. I will keep you all updated if it goes further.
Just reply back and say something like"Vehicle XXXX (registration number) was sold as a private sale with no warranty expressed or implied."
eltax91 said:
I won’t give unqualified legal opinion on the thread, suffice to say I feel for you OP. Sounds like little darling doesn’t like pony riding after all and now the winter is here they want out. Rather than sell it on (which I’ve no doubt they could easily, it’s entry level money for a horsebox) they are trying it on with you.
Could be that they've already tried to sell it and failed so they're trying to "sell" it back to the OP.Worth trying to find adverts in the usual horsey places to see how they've described it? Could be useful ammunition if they keep trying!
some good advice here and I would add too that for anybody currently selling a car that they print off a receipt or bill of sale signed by both parties to include any obvious faults that have been pointed out/agreed/discussed with the buyer.
put your name and address on it and that of the buyer price paid and any bits included in the sale etc.
both sign it, date it, put the mileage on it and the time of handover too. you keep a copy and they do but its mainly for your arris covering.
put your name and address on it and that of the buyer price paid and any bits included in the sale etc.
both sign it, date it, put the mileage on it and the time of handover too. you keep a copy and they do but its mainly for your arris covering.
k offPlease, just stop replying. You or your wife are doing yourselves no favours. They don't have a leg to stand on, but you keep entertaining them. Block the number and you'll never hear from them again. If you receive a letter of intended prosecution, that's when you should take action. Until then (if ever) just forget about it and do nothing.
On a private sale, the general rule is buyer beware. The terms as to quality and fitness for purpose implied by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 into a contract of sale only apply where the seller is acting in the course of a business.
However, if the seller made a statement about the goods which was false and which was relied upon by the buyer, then the buyer may be able to avoid the contract for misrepresentation. This is fairly unusual in private used vehicle sales.
Do not write intemperately. Write your letters to the Judge. By which I mean, always have in mind that if the matter goes to court, your letters to the other side may be shown to and read by the Judge. The objective is to appear to be the reasonable party. Short, to the point and polite.
However, if the seller made a statement about the goods which was false and which was relied upon by the buyer, then the buyer may be able to avoid the contract for misrepresentation. This is fairly unusual in private used vehicle sales.
Do not write intemperately. Write your letters to the Judge. By which I mean, always have in mind that if the matter goes to court, your letters to the other side may be shown to and read by the Judge. The objective is to appear to be the reasonable party. Short, to the point and polite.
Breadvan72 drafted a template sale agreement anybody could use for private sales:
AGREEMENT
1. This Agreement is made on [date of sale] between [name of seller] (the Seller) and [name of buyer] (the Buyer).
2. The Seller agrees to sell and the Buyer agrees to buy [make and model of vehicle] registration number [registration number of vehicle] together with its tools, equipment, entertainment system, handbook [and the following spare parts: etc. delete or expand as appropriate] (the Car) for £[agreed price] (the Price).
3. The Seller acknowledges receipt of the Price. The Buyer acknowledges receipt of the Car.
4. The Seller warrants and represents to the Buyer that the Seller has unencumbered title to the Car and is entitled to pass that title to the Buyer and that the Car is not subject to any finance agreement or other encumbrance.
5. Otherwise, the Car is sold as seen and tested by the Buyer, without any express or implied warranty as to condition or suitability for purpose.
6. This agreement is governed by the laws of England and Wales and the parties submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Courts of England and Wales.
Signed and dated (time too if you are worried about speed cameras etc.)
[name of seller]
[name of buyer]
Replace the bits in square brackets and print 2 copies. Both parties sign both and take one copy each.
AGREEMENT
1. This Agreement is made on [date of sale] between [name of seller] (the Seller) and [name of buyer] (the Buyer).
2. The Seller agrees to sell and the Buyer agrees to buy [make and model of vehicle] registration number [registration number of vehicle] together with its tools, equipment, entertainment system, handbook [and the following spare parts: etc. delete or expand as appropriate] (the Car) for £[agreed price] (the Price).
3. The Seller acknowledges receipt of the Price. The Buyer acknowledges receipt of the Car.
4. The Seller warrants and represents to the Buyer that the Seller has unencumbered title to the Car and is entitled to pass that title to the Buyer and that the Car is not subject to any finance agreement or other encumbrance.
5. Otherwise, the Car is sold as seen and tested by the Buyer, without any express or implied warranty as to condition or suitability for purpose.
6. This agreement is governed by the laws of England and Wales and the parties submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Courts of England and Wales.
Signed and dated (time too if you are worried about speed cameras etc.)
[name of seller]
[name of buyer]
Replace the bits in square brackets and print 2 copies. Both parties sign both and take one copy each.
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