Busted with Class A

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Discussion

NGee

2,377 posts

163 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
simoid said:
Never you mind said:
I bet more money is wasted on people who like booze a bit too much rather than people like the OP who was caught with nothing more than a light dusting of columbian marching powder. It's .3g not a pile that you could ski down.
Source please.

(I’ve had a quick scout and it seems that total cost to society of alcohol and prohibited drugs are of broadly similar magnitude eg £10bn-££20bn).
I never said illegal drugs were the only problem and I don't doubt that sorting out people who drink too much is also an expensive problem. However this thread is about drugs and not drink and I don't understand how a lot of people still think the OP is ok to behave how they have.

Using "simoid's" figures above, druggies cost society £10bn-££20bn of YOUR money.
Still think the OP has been treated harshly?

I assume those figures are for the UK only and does not begin to touch on the other world wide problems "La Liga" mentioned in his post.

markjmd

549 posts

67 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
NGee said:
simoid said:
Never you mind said:
I bet more money is wasted on people who like booze a bit too much rather than people like the OP who was caught with nothing more than a light dusting of columbian marching powder. It's .3g not a pile that you could ski down.
Source please.

(I’ve had a quick scout and it seems that total cost to society of alcohol and prohibited drugs are of broadly similar magnitude eg £10bn-££20bn).
I never said illegal drugs were the only problem and I don't doubt that sorting out people who drink too much is also an expensive problem. However this thread is about drugs and not drink and I don't understand how a lot of people still think the OP is ok to behave how they have.

Using "simoid's" figures above, druggies cost society £10bn-££20bn of YOUR money.
Still think the OP has been treated harshly?

I assume those figures are for the UK only and does not begin to touch on the other world wide problems "La Liga" mentioned in his post.
You seem to be overlooking the fact that La Liga fully acknowledges that the societal harm and cost of the drug trade is in large part a result of the fact that drugs are illegal, and that prohibition has in practice proven to be a counterproductive waste of time and effort. You on the other hand still seem firmly convinced that any reduction in the harm caused by drugs couldn't possibly be achieved by any other means than enforcing prohibition ever more strictly. Do you not see the slight problem in trying to square up those two positions?

As for posters in this thread thinking the OP has been treated harshly, that's not the impression I've got from reading it. Most of those who have commented seem to be of the view that the Police's handling of the incident was fair and generally a good result for the OP.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
markjmd said:
You seem to be overlooking the fact that La Liga fully acknowledges that the societal harm and cost of the drug trade is in large part a result of the fact that drugs are illegal, and that prohibition has in practice proven to be a counterproductive waste of time and effort.
Which will never be fixed while so many get all the nuance in their understanding of the subject from Daily Mail headlines.

NGee

2,377 posts

163 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
markjmd said:
You seem to be overlooking the fact that La Liga fully acknowledges that the societal harm and cost of the drug trade is in large part a result of the fact that drugs are illegal, and that prohibition has in practice proven to be a counterproductive waste of time and effort. You on the other hand still seem firmly convinced that any reduction in the harm caused by drugs couldn't possibly be achieved by any other means than enforcing prohibition ever more strictly. Do you not see the slight problem in trying to square up those two positions?
Not at all, I am fully aware that the problems MAY be reduced if certain drugs were made legal and have never said that the harm caused by druggies could ONLY be achieved by enforcing prohibition.
That is a debate for another thread.
However as it stands at the moment the facts are - it IS illegal and it DOES cost the country a fortune.

Therefore, in my opinion, anyone using drugs IS costing me money!!

evilmunkey

1,377 posts

158 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
obviously your a daft sod...goes without saying ... class a ... cke or whatever youve got it coming but you know that and at least you accept the punishment so fair play. just spoke to my cousin who is plod and often deals with this stuff .. he says no real time limit to letters etc but prob within the next month or so but like youve said hold your hands up admit to being a daft sod , pass the attitude test and youll just get a bking and a small fine. but second time cought... your up st creek . so knock it on the head learn and listen and be humble . his advice not mine i dont touch that stuff.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
It's a difficult one to measure, especially if you consider a few different levels.

Where does the money from drugs go? It's not easy to get it into banks etc so it'll often be used as cash in the service sector. How much VAT does that generate and how much employment does that create? Those employees then pay tax, spend money back in the economy etc.

You could also argue that those who commit crime create an economic benefit. If they need to break into your house, as mentioned earlier, then that creates a demand for security services i.e. alarm companies, better doors, the insurance industry. All employ, all pay tax, all spend etc.

It's all a pretty big circle. The question is whether we want this industry to be run by criminals or by regulated businesses.

Brads67

3,199 posts

97 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
La Liga said:
hich will see you in court with a conviction.

Top advice.
More so than admitting to a crime? ! lol

Say nowt. Work a way out of it later without doing the filths job for them.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
La Liga said:
It's a difficult one to measure, especially if you consider a few different levels.

Where does the money from drugs go? It's not easy to get it into banks etc so it'll often be used as cash in the service sector. How much VAT does that generate and how much employment does that create? Those employees then pay tax, spend money back in the economy etc.

You could also argue that those who commit crime create an economic benefit. If they need to break into your house, as mentioned earlier, then that creates a demand for security services i.e. alarm companies, better doors, the insurance industry. All employ, all pay tax, all spend etc.

It's all a pretty big circle. The question is whether we want this industry to be run by criminals or by regulated businesses.
Another question is why PHers are getting abused for being anti illegal drugs...

markjmd

549 posts

67 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
simoid said:
Another question is why PHers are getting abused for being anti illegal drugs...
There's being anti, and there's foaming at the mouth, fists pounding on the keyboard anti. I can quite understand the former, but the latter can only be explained by a near-total failure to grasp the facts and realities of the subject at hand, or perhaps an extreme personal experience which precludes balanced/objective judgement of it.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
Brads67 said:
La Liga said:
Which will see you in court with a conviction.

Top advice.
More so than admitting to a crime? ! lol

Say nowt. Work a way out of it later without doing the filths job for them.
Yes, moreso because if you don’t admit the offence then you cannot receive a caution. A caution is a better outcome than a conviction at court. Try and take some time to understand that.

It appears I can’t simplify it enough for you.

“Work a way out of it later”.

More great advice. You must work in criminal law.

the tribester

2,340 posts

85 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
And you're not going to do it again?


Of course you aren't.

rofl
Not now that he knows it's illegal and he could get into trouble..........

Brads67

3,199 posts

97 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
La Liga said:
es, moreso because if you don’t admit the offence then you cannot receive a caution. A caution is a better outcome than a conviction at court. Try and take some time to understand that.

It appears I can’t simplify it enough for you.

“Work a way out of it later”.

More great advice. You must work in criminal law.
Try to take the time to understand that no conviction is better than a caution. Not hard is it ?

You`re not guilty just because a copper says you are. And admitting to a crime does it all for them.

Seems to me that most folk talk themselves into the st when they should just learn to shut their traps.

But off course, I know nothing, you know everything.

pc.iow

1,879 posts

202 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
Brads67 said:
La Liga said:
es, moreso because if you don’t admit the offence then you cannot receive a caution. A caution is a better outcome than a conviction at court. Try and take some time to understand that.

It appears I can’t simplify it enough for you.

“Work a way out of it later”.

More great advice. You must work in criminal law.
Try to take the time to understand that no conviction is better than a caution. Not hard is it ?

You`re not guilty just because a copper says you are. And admitting to a crime does it all for them.

Seems to me that most folk talk themselves into the st when they should just learn to shut their traps.

But off course, I know nothing, you know everything.
Brad, you do know La Liga is Five-O don't you?

And what a breath of fresh air his thought are for the future of this country.
You cannot stop whats happening, but you can get some sort of control, or finance to help control the situation if you open your eyes to the problem.

BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
Drumroll said:
BertBert said:
NGee said:
That 'little' bit' has cost ALL of us money, yes even you C70R.
Why do you think car/house insurance is so high? Because druggies will nick anything for their next fix.
Why do think local/national taxes are so high? Because it costs a lot of money to educate, punish and care for druggies.
Why do you think the roads are full of potholes? Because the money is being spent by the NHS.
Why do you think the NHS is falling to pieces? Because far too many resourses are being spent on looking after druggies.

I do realise that this is a fairly simplistic view...
Awesome nonsense.
Are you saying misuse of drugs in the UK doesn't cost us all money?
Whether it costs as more than the misuse of alcohol could be debated, But it does cost us money
I'm not saying that as that would be indefensible. I'm just casting aspersions on the ridiculous argument. Let's try (for example) and work out how much of my car insurance is down to "druggies". Is it 50%. Perhaps not. 30%? I won't go on, but my estimate would be a fraction of a percentage. You get my drift I'm sure. It's a minuscule amount higher than it would otherwise be. It's not 'so high' because of it.
Bert

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
Brads67 said:
You're not guilty just because a copper says you are. And admitting to a crime does it all for them.
Admitting it does not do it all for them at all. An investigation should never rely on an admission.

Being found in possession of cocaine does it all for them.

Brads67 said:
Seems to me that most folk talk themselves into the st when they should just learn to shut their traps.
Whether to talk or not depends on the circumstances.

1) If you're raising a defence then you will need to give an account. If you're being interviewed for assault but have acted in self-defence, then you will need to provide an account for that self-defence.

2) If the police have little / no evidence then saying nothing is appropriate. If you're being interviewed for an assault but the person who has been assaulted doesn't want to make a complaint and there's no corroborating evidence.

3) If you're 'bang to rights'. If the evidence is overwhelming and there's nothing you can possibly do to negate it, then saying nothing can be the most appropriate thing to do.

4) If you're trying to minimise the outcome you'll want to talk to the police. For example, being caught in possession of a small amount of cocaine and aiming to avoid a conviction in court because you're eligible for an out of court disposal.

Brads67 said:
But off course, I know nothing, you know everything.
I don't know everything, but I know enough to know when someone doesn't know what they are talking about. Although I'm sure the casual observer could figure that out too, given your advice has been 'say nothing and figure something out later'.

At what point would they do that, BTW? At court? 'It may harm you defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court...' Perhaps not then.

I dealt with people who thought they were savvy / streetwise, and seen them get into more trouble than they had to because they were willing to spout out stupid generalisations without knowing what they are talking about.

t1grm

4,655 posts

283 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
0.3g of coke? What's the point? You'd get a bigger hit off a double espresso. Surprised the police would even bother.

Graveworm

8,476 posts

70 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
t1grm said:
0.3g of coke? What's the point? You'd get a bigger hit off a double espresso. Surprised the police would even bother.
If you say so. rolleyes

Ilovejapcrap

3,274 posts

111 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
Good result OP.

Probs time to give it up now pal, head down and all that.

Mind you having said that I can’t for the life of me stop smoking, so what do I know

Mr Tidy

22,065 posts

126 months

Tuesday 16th October 2018
quotequote all
simoid said:
Source please.

(I’ve had a quick scout and it seems that total cost to society of alcohol and prohibited drugs are of broadly similar magnitude eg £10bn-££20bn).
Maybe, but alcohol gives the Treasury Millions in tax revenue - prohibited drugs just drain the NHS.

NGee

2,377 posts

163 months

Tuesday 16th October 2018
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Drumroll said:
BertBert said:
NGee said:
That 'little' bit' has cost ALL of us money, yes even you C70R.
Why do you think car/house insurance is so high? Because druggies will nick anything for their next fix.
Why do think local/national taxes are so high? Because it costs a lot of money to educate, punish and care for druggies.
Why do you think the roads are full of potholes? Because the money is being spent by the NHS.
Why do you think the NHS is falling to pieces? Because far too many resourses are being spent on looking after druggies.

I do realise that this is a fairly simplistic view...
Awesome nonsense.
Are you saying misuse of drugs in the UK doesn't cost us all money?
Whether it costs as more than the misuse of alcohol could be debated, But it does cost us money
I'm not saying that as that would be indefensible. I'm just casting aspersions on the ridiculous argument. Let's try (for example) and work out how much of my car insurance is down to "druggies". Is it 50%. Perhaps not. 30%? I won't go on, but my estimate would be a fraction of a percentage. You get my drift I'm sure. It's a minuscule amount higher than it would otherwise be. It's not 'so high' because of it.
Bert
OK, as you say, let's try and work out how much druggies cost us. Using "Simoids" earlier figures (10-20 Billion pounds), let's say £15,000,000,000 and with a UK population of just over 60 million. That means an average cost to every single man, woman and child of approx £250 by direct or indirect taxation. So an 'average' family of 4 is paying approx £1000 every year to 'support' the illegal drug trade.
Yes, it is only a small percentage on your car insurance, but all the other small percentages of tax add up, and it is costing YOU £250.

Now you might think that's a ridulous argument and a miniscule amount, you are entitled to your view.
However I think it is disgusting that it costs our family of four £1000 a year just to look after the local druggies. Not what I would call a miniscule amount.