Stair Lift Mess

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LivingTheDream

Original Poster:

1,753 posts

178 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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Apologies for long post - Not sure if there's much to be done but any general advice appreciated. (apologies for lack of detail, I've not been involved other than hearing the woes)

My Dad lives on his own out in rural Norfolk and has been stuck downstairs for the past 18 months or so due to issues with his legs.

He responded to an advert from a local company who could install a stair lift in his place - the stairs are quite narrow and do a 180 halfway.

A designer from the company came out and there was some discussion about the best way to fit the lift. Anyway, Dad went ahead and had it fitted.

The installer showed him it working once finished and got my Dad to sit in it to lift him up - now it is very tight and as they went up, the installer had to move my Dad's foot out of the way of the newel post for clearance.

My Dad is a reasonable fellow so thought this would be fine - it is not! He cannot move his foot himself at this point so when it gets caught, the lift simply stops! He is left stranded.

He has tried (don't laugh!) a scarf round his foot to try and move it with his hands - no luck and has been left stuck until neighbours have come round!!

The lift company said they would chop out some of the newel post to help which my Dad refused as its a period property with original staircase.

The designer came back the other day and said to my Dad that it wasn't fit for purpose and he would look at an alternative along with a reduced cost for the changes but when he spoke to the MD that all changed.

He now says theres nothing wrong with it and changing it would cost £2700.

I suspect theres little in writing apart from a few emails back and forth with most things done face to face.

Any suggestions for where to go for independant views on stairlift installations? any other thoughts? Should lifts just stop halfway with no way of getting back up or down? That seems mad!!

What sort of recourse does he have?

Original costs have all been paid in full


vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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Look at Consumer Rights Act

Nezquick

1,453 posts

125 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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Can he try and get a visit from his local Occupational Therapist - they should be able to come round, assess the suitability (or otherwise) of the stair lift and do a quick report in terms of what needs to be changed.

You can then use that to approach the company and evidence that it's not fit for purpose and take it from there - this will either involve trying to recover everything which has been paid out already (and finding another company to do the job properly) or getting the current company to sort it out properly.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy having to pay for more work to put right what should have been obvious to start with. If it's not suitable for a stair lift, the company should have made that clear at the outset.

trickywoo

11,704 posts

229 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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I'm no chippy but I'd have thought a replacement newel post, and keep the original for putting back when the stair lift is no longer needed, would be a good compromise.

It sounds like much else could easily end up in small claims court which sounds like more trouble than either of you need.


Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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For safety I would imagine that if it senses anything in the way, or catching, that it would do a hard stop, just in case it is more than a foot catching.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Monday 19th November 2018
quotequote all
Oh, and on a practical level it might be good to have a pendant alarm if his mobility is that restricted?

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/products/mobility-and-ind...

Just in case he gets stuck upstairs, it shorts out, etc.

UpTheIron

3,992 posts

267 months

Monday 19th November 2018
quotequote all
trickywoo said:
I'm no chippy but I'd have thought a replacement newel post, and keep the original for putting back when the stair lift is no longer needed, would be a good compromise.

It sounds like much else could easily end up in small claims court which sounds like more trouble than either of you need.
I'm also not chippy but I do know that getting the relevant chippy to remove, replace (and the reverse at a later date) along with a decorator (twice) will likely not be cheap. Replacing a newel post properly is often fairly major surgery.

Dixy

2,913 posts

204 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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Is the supplier a member of the BHTA they have a good arbitration system.

Dixy

2,913 posts

204 months

Monday 19th November 2018
quotequote all
Is the supplier a member of the BHTA they have a good arbitration system.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Monday 19th November 2018
quotequote all
Um, they were engaged to produce a custom product that does not work. They can either remedy it or you get another firm in to do so and bill them for it..

Pica-Pica

13,621 posts

83 months

Monday 19th November 2018
quotequote all
Nezquick said:
Can he try and get a visit from his local Occupational Therapist - they should be able to come round, assess the suitability (or otherwise) of the stair lift and do a quick report in terms of what needs to be changed.

You can then use that to approach the company and evidence that it's not fit for purpose and take it from there - this will either involve trying to recover everything which has been paid out already (and finding another company to do the job properly) or getting the current company to sort it out properly.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy having to pay for more work to put right what should have been obvious to start with. If it's not suitable for a stair lift, the company should have made that clear at the outset.
This. Occ Therapy should have been involved soon after he became encumbered.

0ddball

859 posts

138 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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I actually work in a drawing office and design them (won't mention the company but we supply lots of dealers around the country who then sell to the end user, often under the guise of it being their own design/product). There are, on occasion, staircases that are too tight and things do require trimming to allow the lift to fit. But we usually have a customer back to knee/feet measurement that is used to show the projected line of travel on the CAD drawing, so it should have been clear if there were to be any clashes before anything went into production.

The lift should always be designed with worst case scenario in mind (break down/ user falls off/ gets a hand or foot caught etc) so shouldn't really be left in a state where the user could be stranded.

The end user having to sit a certain way, or take things into consideration when using the lift is quite common but they should be made aware of these before the sign off (sounds like this did happen in this case). Once the end user has approved the design, that is usually good enough for us.

However we are aware that dealers are salespeople and will sometimes "massage the facts" to get the sale. And in the desperation for mobility, the end user can sometimes be talked into a product that isn't suitable.

There are various lifts on the market and some can fit where others don't. In addition, there are sometimes adjustments on the chair that can help with the fit. Maybe that particular lift is not suitable for the staircase but another would fit better. We can go as narrow as 600mm with one of our products but the cheaper lift we do can't go less than 700.

Regardless, it is a poor show from the dealer and most will usually swallow the cost to make sure the end user is happy (mark up on them is pretty high, often 400%). There isn't much I can advise with regards to getting the company to play ball, but if you posted a pic of the issue I may be able to suggest something that would improve the fit.

kowalski655

14,599 posts

142 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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Would just turning 90 degrees in the seat, so he faces downstairs, help, so his feet trail the stairlift going uphill(& are in front when going downhill) rather than stick out in front of him? Or would that mean that he may fall out of the seat & end up going down the stairs headfirst?

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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This seems fundamentally wrong and sounds like they have tucked your old boy up. Consumer Rights Act and trading standards would be next stop if they have done as you said, ie one designer admitted it is not right but the MD basically saying "fk you".
You're old boy sounds like a vulnerable person and one they are exploiting. His stairlift should not operate with any part of him contacting the existing house structure. There can be no dispute about that.

Even Watchdog would be worth a shout. It's pretty st that after 18 months on the ground floor, he invests in a lift and it is not useable, and the fact it traps him, ffs that's outrageous.


BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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A different perspective... If there is a solution with modifying the stairs, surely even in a period building, that is a better idea, even if it means losing the consumer 'fight' with the supplier?
Bert

echazfraz

772 posts

146 months

Monday 19th November 2018
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What is happening is not acceptable with a properly designed and installed stairlift - it can't meet the requirements of the legislation that covers it if it's catching your old man's foot on the newel post!

If he's getting no luck with the company (and reminding them of their obligations as an installer of such equipment) then he could speak to one of the relevant industry bodies:

www.epsa.eu.com
www.leia.co.uk

They may be members of one, both, or neither. Even if they're not members of one of these associations, the associations may be helpful with giving you the correct language to use to chivy them along - industry bodies don't like their industry coming into disrepute through dodgy installers.

Next step if that doesn't work is to speak to Citizens' Advice.

Their website's pretty easy to use and puts what he should / shouldn't expect in simple terms, so he could look at that now.

Trading Standards is the step after that and CA can help with this course of action too if they think that the manufacturer / installer has pulled a fast one.

Good luck!


elanfan

5,516 posts

226 months

Tuesday 20th November 2018
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Did he pay by credit card? Not fit for purpose. You know the rest.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Tuesday 20th November 2018
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echazfraz said:
Next step if that doesn't work is to speak to Citizens' Advice.
Sadly they scarcely exist any more.

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th November 2018
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This is a thread where pictures really would help.

LivingTheDream

Original Poster:

1,753 posts

178 months

Tuesday 20th November 2018
quotequote all
Thanks for all the advice folks - I'll try and address some points

Pics are difficult - I would need to get there which is some distance from me but if not sorted when I do, then I will.

There is no way he will entertain altering the newel posts - they are original, chopping them in any way will not be repairable. They are not painted.

I get that the lift should halt if an obstruction is detected - but then not to be able to reset it from the seat seems crazy. There is no chance he will get stuck right now as he's not using the lift.

personal pendant alarm - yes absolutely. I just need to convince him he needs it and then get him to carry it. We gave him a mobile phone once as the equivalent, its turned off and in a drawer.

The installer has BHTA and Trading Standards logos on their site so thanks to those mentioning them - thats a good avenue to investigate. He has now decided to speak to a solicitor now to takes things further.

The industry bodies is very useful - thanks

The seat does not allow movement to the side I believe - he is pretty stuck in position as i understand it

Oddball - many thanks for that explanation, it really helps. I will ask him but I believe there was no drawing before, just a discussion. Then when the installation was done, a trial where they moved his foot.

I've looked at email correspondence and he wrote to them within 3 weeks of installation stating not fit for purpose and needed a solution so thats good that he made them aware very soon after.

I'll update again once I speak to him

thanks