Is this parking charge considered excessive?
Discussion
POPLA code is there so thats your next step. Id hide that if I were you.
CEL were always going to decline your appeal. Look over on MSE parking fine forums. POPLA used to be easy to deal with (I had 20x tickets after baiting UKCPM by turning my permit upside down) but in recent years they have got a bit funny, new management I think but they are still ruling in motorists favors using the forum advice.
MSE forum users will help you draft up a POPLA appeal and any of their POPLA templates should do really as you give them multiple points to rebut on which they never can. Shouldn't take much effort really it honestly isnt a big deal. Whole industry is a complete scam.
Costs CEL money every time you appeal as well so its worth doing.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay....
Read sticky first. CEL are under BPA and you have your POPLA code so you are past the initial appeal to the Parking operator.
CEL were always going to decline your appeal. Look over on MSE parking fine forums. POPLA used to be easy to deal with (I had 20x tickets after baiting UKCPM by turning my permit upside down) but in recent years they have got a bit funny, new management I think but they are still ruling in motorists favors using the forum advice.
MSE forum users will help you draft up a POPLA appeal and any of their POPLA templates should do really as you give them multiple points to rebut on which they never can. Shouldn't take much effort really it honestly isnt a big deal. Whole industry is a complete scam.
Costs CEL money every time you appeal as well so its worth doing.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay....
Read sticky first. CEL are under BPA and you have your POPLA code so you are past the initial appeal to the Parking operator.
As above - there are loads of examples of POPLA appeals against CEL, but many are written in pretend-lawyer speak and are unnecessairly long. Keep it simple, in plain English, and know in your own mind what each appeal point means.
There's a detailed explanation of how to construct a POPLA appeal on this site - https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla/ which explains what the various arguments are.
With CEL focus on their failure to comply with POFA 2012 to hold the keeper liable - that should be the only point that POPLA judge the appeal on, but it is also worth challenging the signage - was it clear and easy to read - CEL will have to provide evidence and the adjudicator makes the call on it.
Have they got the the authority to operate on that site, and is the contract between CEL and the landowner, or a managing agent? If the latter, they will need to prove that the landowner permits that activity via the contract with the managing agent.
Landowner authority is mroe specific to retail parks, but it is akin to me writing a notice in this post saying that anyone who disagrees with me has to pay me £10. It may well be a valid contract, but if Haymarket (or CarGurus) did not permit to operate that business model on their website, it puts me in a difficult position to enforce a charge.
There is a good chance that when you submit it to POPLA, CEL will withdraw or not contest it - they withdrew from 1068 POPLA appeals last year, out of 4000 that were submitted for adjudication - https://popla.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-do...
There's a detailed explanation of how to construct a POPLA appeal on this site - https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla/ which explains what the various arguments are.
With CEL focus on their failure to comply with POFA 2012 to hold the keeper liable - that should be the only point that POPLA judge the appeal on, but it is also worth challenging the signage - was it clear and easy to read - CEL will have to provide evidence and the adjudicator makes the call on it.
Have they got the the authority to operate on that site, and is the contract between CEL and the landowner, or a managing agent? If the latter, they will need to prove that the landowner permits that activity via the contract with the managing agent.
Landowner authority is mroe specific to retail parks, but it is akin to me writing a notice in this post saying that anyone who disagrees with me has to pay me £10. It may well be a valid contract, but if Haymarket (or CarGurus) did not permit to operate that business model on their website, it puts me in a difficult position to enforce a charge.
There is a good chance that when you submit it to POPLA, CEL will withdraw or not contest it - they withdrew from 1068 POPLA appeals last year, out of 4000 that were submitted for adjudication - https://popla.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-do...
I submitted my Popla appeal on 7th Jan.
I kept it simple as per previous posters advise. So many posts on MSE of appeals pages long full of waffle.
I keep checking for updates as I haven't heard anything and it says that the operator is gathering evidence.
How long do they have to submit their evidence against me and what kind of evidence can they possibly have?
My appeal was that I am the keeper of the car but not the driver and therefore not liable for the parking charge. I submitted evidence in the form of hospital letter that shows I definitely wasn't the driver at the time as due to a health condition I am not able to drive at the moment.
I kept it simple as per previous posters advise. So many posts on MSE of appeals pages long full of waffle.
I keep checking for updates as I haven't heard anything and it says that the operator is gathering evidence.
How long do they have to submit their evidence against me and what kind of evidence can they possibly have?
My appeal was that I am the keeper of the car but not the driver and therefore not liable for the parking charge. I submitted evidence in the form of hospital letter that shows I definitely wasn't the driver at the time as due to a health condition I am not able to drive at the moment.
mangos said:
I submitted my Popla appeal on 7th Jan.
I kept it simple as per previous posters advise. So many posts on MSE of appeals pages long full of waffle.
I keep checking for updates as I haven't heard anything and it says that the operator is gathering evidence.
How long do they have to submit their evidence against me and what kind of evidence can they possibly have?
My appeal was that I am the keeper of the car but not the driver and therefore not liable for the parking charge. I submitted evidence in the form of hospital letter that shows I definitely wasn't the driver at the time as due to a health condition I am not able to drive at the moment.
POFA 2012 gives the ability for the parking companies to hold the keeper liable. If you have appealed on the basis that you weren't driving at the time, you also need to have either:I kept it simple as per previous posters advise. So many posts on MSE of appeals pages long full of waffle.
I keep checking for updates as I haven't heard anything and it says that the operator is gathering evidence.
How long do they have to submit their evidence against me and what kind of evidence can they possibly have?
My appeal was that I am the keeper of the car but not the driver and therefore not liable for the parking charge. I submitted evidence in the form of hospital letter that shows I definitely wasn't the driver at the time as due to a health condition I am not able to drive at the moment.
a) Identified the driver
or,
b) Demonstrated a reason that CEL cannot hold you liable as keeper
Did you do either of those things? If your appeal was just "I wasn't driving at the time", it will be rejected. Whilst MSE do advocate some things that could be considered "waffle", the points that they use are mostly based on points of law. POPLA will not rule on something you haven't raised, so even if the paperwork you were sent is not sufficient to hold you liable as keeper, if you haven't questioned it then neither will the POPLA assessor. This is why MSE use a scattergun document that covers as many common appeal points as possible.
The operator will also not need to provide much evidence - just a copy of the documents that they've already sent you, unless you have specifically questioned something.
S11Steve said:
I've had a reply back from POPLA today for an appeal I put in just before Christmas for a a friends vehicle - the parking company has decided not to contest it.
It can take a 4-5 weeks for the full process to complete though.
Great news, its like a game of poker they charge you and say pay as we have a cracking hand, you call them out on a popla and many fold as their business model is print charges to anyone who breaches the terms and some that don't and hope so % pay up no fuss.It can take a 4-5 weeks for the full process to complete though.
Soon as you put up a fight many don't want to lose money and resources fighting you. Its not costs them £27 or so for the popla appeal and £2.50 for your keeper info. If everyone did this, the industry would fail and have to be run and regulated properly.
Your next option is if you fancy it is to complain they have accessed your keeper info without good cause and therefore have breached data protection! I have received some compensation from a couple by doing this!
mangos said:
I submitted my Popla appeal on 7th Jan.
I kept it simple as per previous posters advise. So many posts on MSE of appeals pages long full of waffle.
I keep checking for updates as I haven't heard anything and it says that the operator is gathering evidence.
How long do they have to submit their evidence against me and what kind of evidence can they possibly have?
My appeal was that I am the keeper of the car but not the driver and therefore not liable for the parking charge. I submitted evidence in the form of hospital letter that shows I definitely wasn't the driver at the time as due to a health condition I am not able to drive at the moment.
Is this for a different offence?I kept it simple as per previous posters advise. So many posts on MSE of appeals pages long full of waffle.
I keep checking for updates as I haven't heard anything and it says that the operator is gathering evidence.
How long do they have to submit their evidence against me and what kind of evidence can they possibly have?
My appeal was that I am the keeper of the car but not the driver and therefore not liable for the parking charge. I submitted evidence in the form of hospital letter that shows I definitely wasn't the driver at the time as due to a health condition I am not able to drive at the moment.
What happened with the case in your OP where you were driving? Did you get it quashed?
mangos said:
I was on holiday in the UK 2 weeks ago, parked briefly in an empty harbour side carpark in a quiet area. Didn't spot any signs or pay machines and assumed it was free. It was late afternoon and after dusk.
Ive come home today to a parking charge notice from a company called Civil Enforcement Ltd in Liverpool.
It is £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days. The notice is dated 7th December so I would have until 21st to pay it.
Fair enough, I've not paid to park as I missed the signs, probably because I am not familiar with the area, and explains why the car park might have been quiet. I would expect to pay £30 and be done with it.
Would you consider this an excessive fine and is there any change at negotiating with the parking company?
Having looked up the car park on google, the long list of reviews tell me that this is a common occurrence recently as the car park was only taken over by this firm at the beginning of the year so has stung holiday makers and locals.
Ive come home today to a parking charge notice from a company called Civil Enforcement Ltd in Liverpool.
It is £100 or £60 if paid within 14 days. The notice is dated 7th December so I would have until 21st to pay it.
Fair enough, I've not paid to park as I missed the signs, probably because I am not familiar with the area, and explains why the car park might have been quiet. I would expect to pay £30 and be done with it.
Would you consider this an excessive fine and is there any change at negotiating with the parking company?
Having looked up the car park on google, the long list of reviews tell me that this is a common occurrence recently as the car park was only taken over by this firm at the beginning of the year so has stung holiday makers and locals.
Hol said:
Think I have balls up my appeal from reading into this more yesterday. The whole thing is quite confusing and Im starting to think I should have just paid the reduced fine at £60.
Im no where near the car park so there's no option to go back and take photos to give evidence of bad signage and don't have anything else to go on.
How long should a POPLA appeal take for a decision?
I submitted my appeal on 7th January. The parking company submitted their response 18th January. Ever since the tracking system has said that the POPLA assesment is in progress.
It'l have been 6 weeks at this stage come tomorrow. Is this normal?
I submitted my appeal on 7th January. The parking company submitted their response 18th January. Ever since the tracking system has said that the POPLA assesment is in progress.
It'l have been 6 weeks at this stage come tomorrow. Is this normal?
mangos said:
How long should a POPLA appeal take for a decision?
I submitted my appeal on 7th January. The parking company submitted their response 18th January. Ever since the tracking system has said that the POPLA assesment is in progress.
It'l have been 6 weeks at this stage come tomorrow. Is this normal?
About 6 -8 weeks at the moment - an appeal I put in between Christmas and new year has just been found in my favour earlier this week.I submitted my appeal on 7th January. The parking company submitted their response 18th January. Ever since the tracking system has said that the POPLA assesment is in progress.
It'l have been 6 weeks at this stage come tomorrow. Is this normal?
I have just seen this, but have a VERY good look at POFA 2012 Section 9
If that letter is all they sent you they seemed to have failed on several points which should be a winner at POLPLA
Remember that have to abide with this all the way through
Of it isnt all of their letter please post it up back and front, with names and references redacted, we might be able to get something out of this
If that letter is all they sent you they seemed to have failed on several points which should be a winner at POLPLA
Remember that have to abide with this all the way through
Of it isnt all of their letter please post it up back and front, with names and references redacted, we might be able to get something out of this
surveyor_101 said:
S11Steve said:
I've had a reply back from POPLA today for an appeal I put in just before Christmas for a a friends vehicle - the parking company has decided not to contest it.
It can take a 4-5 weeks for the full process to complete though.
Great news, its like a game of poker they charge you and say pay as we have a cracking hand, you call them out on a popla and many fold as their business model is print charges to anyone who breaches the terms and some that don't and hope so % pay up no fuss.It can take a 4-5 weeks for the full process to complete though.
Soon as you put up a fight many don't want to lose money and resources fighting you. Its not costs them £27 or so for the popla appeal and £2.50 for your keeper info. If everyone did this, the industry would fail and have to be run and regulated properly.
Your next option is if you fancy it is to complain they have accessed your keeper info without good cause and therefore have breached data protection! I have received some compensation from a couple by doing this!
jm doc said:
How did you pursue this, who awards the compensation?
Not something I have personally done as my fleet is registered to a Ltd company and different aspects of DPA come in to play, but I do know of 2 people that just went down the small claims route and each successfully claimed £750 + court fees. One was uncontested though I believe - the parking company paid up on receipt of the claim.. There is a precedent set at one of the higher courts that dictates that £750 is not an unreasonable figure for such a breach.
There's more background and info on the process here - https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-a...
S11Steve said:
jm doc said:
How did you pursue this, who awards the compensation?
Not something I have personally done as my fleet is registered to a Ltd company and different aspects of DPA come in to play, but I do know of 2 people that just went down the small claims route and each successfully claimed £750 + court fees. One was uncontested though I believe - the parking company paid up on receipt of the claim.. There is a precedent set at one of the higher courts that dictates that £750 is not an unreasonable figure for such a breach.
There's more background and info on the process here - https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/data-protection-a...
jm doc said:
Thanks Steve, despite sending a cease and desist notice to a parking company who having been trying to claim money despite having written permission from the landowner to park there, they have continued to process my data unlawfully. Their shear arrogance is breathtaking, they clearly think they are bulletproof and unchallengable.
Perhaps a court claim might disabuse them of that notion. You can't argue with a rhinoceros. Far too thick skinned.
Sue the b
s and let a judge decide.jm doc said:
Thanks Steve, despite sending a cease and desist notice to a parking company who having been trying to claim money despite having written permission from the landowner to park there, they have continued to process my data unlawfully. Their shear arrogance is breathtaking, they clearly think they are bulletproof and unchallengable.
Letter before action then a do money claim online. Refuse to acknowledge anything they say and go to court. Oh the irony
Collect £750 and blow the lot
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