Discussion
As a caveat, I think its best to not drink at all when you are going to drive a car.
But it is an interesting and emotive area.
I was breathalysed after my disagreement with a Honda Accord just before Christmas, first time I have had to do it, been stopped routinely once on Christmas day but the Policeman didn't smell booze so didn't have me provide a sample, he was correct.
Its funny, even though I hadn't had a drink since the night before, which was a double Brandy nightcap after a long day, I still felt like I was guilty, very unlikely 20 hours later 50 ML of hotel brandy would register. The Policeman said it actually takes a fair amount to put someone over the limit, i was doing a bit of reading on it and found this. We used to mess with the Breathalysers when I worked at GMP, three pints of lager at lunch only just put me over, on an empty stomach, and that was briefly, no way I would have driven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_conten...
Our blood alcohol level limit in England (0.08%) is second only to the Cayman Islands at 0.1 percent, most countries are much lower.
I think zero is hard to enforce fairly and probably overkill but the current limit seems fairly high, I know someone who has been breathalysed after an evening in the pub drinking five or more pints of bitter and has always been fine.
I personally wouldn't want anything other than a zero reading as even a low reading would have you thinking if it was a factor and could potentially be prejudicial if you had to go to court.
What is you approach and feelings on the subject ?
But it is an interesting and emotive area.
I was breathalysed after my disagreement with a Honda Accord just before Christmas, first time I have had to do it, been stopped routinely once on Christmas day but the Policeman didn't smell booze so didn't have me provide a sample, he was correct.
Its funny, even though I hadn't had a drink since the night before, which was a double Brandy nightcap after a long day, I still felt like I was guilty, very unlikely 20 hours later 50 ML of hotel brandy would register. The Policeman said it actually takes a fair amount to put someone over the limit, i was doing a bit of reading on it and found this. We used to mess with the Breathalysers when I worked at GMP, three pints of lager at lunch only just put me over, on an empty stomach, and that was briefly, no way I would have driven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_conten...
Our blood alcohol level limit in England (0.08%) is second only to the Cayman Islands at 0.1 percent, most countries are much lower.
I think zero is hard to enforce fairly and probably overkill but the current limit seems fairly high, I know someone who has been breathalysed after an evening in the pub drinking five or more pints of bitter and has always been fine.
I personally wouldn't want anything other than a zero reading as even a low reading would have you thinking if it was a factor and could potentially be prejudicial if you had to go to court.
What is you approach and feelings on the subject ?
Personally I think it's fine as-is - the people who don't care about drink-driving tend to have a shedload and get behind the wheel.
In normal society people have a couple, or none at all (increasingly common) and take extra care. Given how little drinking or driving the young millennials do I don't think it'll be an issue for long.
Personally I'll have one, or perhaps two pints slowly with food.
In normal society people have a couple, or none at all (increasingly common) and take extra care. Given how little drinking or driving the young millennials do I don't think it'll be an issue for long.
Personally I'll have one, or perhaps two pints slowly with food.
I never drive on any more than one pint. (Of beer, not Scotch!)
A year's ban just isn't worth it. Morning after a night out I probably won't drive either, seen too many get banned this way.
Current limit is about right imo, although in these health and safety obsessed times where 35 in a 30 as considered a hanging offence no doubt the current limit is ripe for cutting to get all those sensible respectable drinkers off the road, as previously said government policy is all about discouraging driving by making it as unpleasant as possible. Cutting the limit must be on their agenda next.
A year's ban just isn't worth it. Morning after a night out I probably won't drive either, seen too many get banned this way.
Current limit is about right imo, although in these health and safety obsessed times where 35 in a 30 as considered a hanging offence no doubt the current limit is ripe for cutting to get all those sensible respectable drinkers off the road, as previously said government policy is all about discouraging driving by making it as unpleasant as possible. Cutting the limit must be on their agenda next.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 15th January 15:38
J4CKO said:
As a caveat, I think its best to not drink at all when you are going to drive a car.
But it is an interesting and emotive area.
I was breathalysed after my disagreement with a Honda Accord just before Christmas, first time I have had to do it, been stopped routinely once on Christmas day but the Policeman didn't smell booze so didn't have me provide a sample, he was correct.
Its funny, even though I hadn't had a drink since the night before, which was a double Brandy nightcap after a long day, I still felt like I was guilty, very unlikely 20 hours later 50 ML of hotel brandy would register. The Policeman said it actually takes a fair amount to put someone over the limit, i was doing a bit of reading on it and found this. We used to mess with the Breathalysers when I worked at GMP, three pints of lager at lunch only just put me over, on an empty stomach, and that was briefly, no way I would have driven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_conten...
Our blood alcohol level limit in England (0.08%) is second only to the Cayman Islands at 0.1 percent, most countries are much lower.
I think zero is hard to enforce fairly and probably overkill but the current limit seems fairly high, I know someone who has been breathalysed after an evening in the pub drinking five or more pints of bitter and has always been fine.
I personally wouldn't want anything other than a zero reading as even a low reading would have you thinking if it was a factor and could potentially be prejudicial if you had to go to court.
What is you approach and feelings on the subject ?
The penalties for DUI (Driving Under the Influence) are pretty harsh here in the UK. A mandatory 12 month suspension and up to a £2,500 fine. Its a mandatory court date which may choose to dish out up to 3 years in prison if you were also driving dangerously but for the sake of argument lets assume that it's just a DUI. But it is an interesting and emotive area.
I was breathalysed after my disagreement with a Honda Accord just before Christmas, first time I have had to do it, been stopped routinely once on Christmas day but the Policeman didn't smell booze so didn't have me provide a sample, he was correct.
Its funny, even though I hadn't had a drink since the night before, which was a double Brandy nightcap after a long day, I still felt like I was guilty, very unlikely 20 hours later 50 ML of hotel brandy would register. The Policeman said it actually takes a fair amount to put someone over the limit, i was doing a bit of reading on it and found this. We used to mess with the Breathalysers when I worked at GMP, three pints of lager at lunch only just put me over, on an empty stomach, and that was briefly, no way I would have driven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_conten...
Our blood alcohol level limit in England (0.08%) is second only to the Cayman Islands at 0.1 percent, most countries are much lower.
I think zero is hard to enforce fairly and probably overkill but the current limit seems fairly high, I know someone who has been breathalysed after an evening in the pub drinking five or more pints of bitter and has always been fine.
I personally wouldn't want anything other than a zero reading as even a low reading would have you thinking if it was a factor and could potentially be prejudicial if you had to go to court.
What is you approach and feelings on the subject ?
Western Australia on the other hand has a hard limit at 0.05% but for your first offence under 0.08% its just a A$400 (£230) fine. You aren't even taken off the road. For 0.08% on your first offence it's a six month ban and A$500-1500 (£280-840) fine.
That being said, WA cops are notorious for letting drivers who pass the attitude test sit on the side of the road for half an hour before re-testing if they've only blown 0.06.
I'm more of a fan of the UK way of doing things. Make the penalties harsher to discourage people rather than trying to get more convictions but really here in the UK there are so many alternatives to drinking and driving that you really don't need to risk it. Minicabs are affordable, public transport runs pretty well and a Premier Inn is cheap. Nothing like that in WA, let alone the Northern Territory where drink driving is still a serious problem.
I know a guy (drinks in my old local) who lived a couple of miles up a single track lane out in the sticks. He would trundle his Landrover down the lane and park it a few hundred yards from the pub. Walk the last few hundred yards, have 3 pints of bitter, walk back to his Landrover and trundle back up the lane.
He had done this for years, until one night plod (probably on a tip off) followed him down the lane and nicked him as he got in his Landrover. He was a HGV driver by trade and spent a very tense 20 minutes in the back of the plod car waiting to be tested. He was under the limit, but not by much. Suffice to say he walks down to the pub and gets his Mrs to give him a lift back.
He never did find out who dobbed him in!
He had done this for years, until one night plod (probably on a tip off) followed him down the lane and nicked him as he got in his Landrover. He was a HGV driver by trade and spent a very tense 20 minutes in the back of the plod car waiting to be tested. He was under the limit, but not by much. Suffice to say he walks down to the pub and gets his Mrs to give him a lift back.
He never did find out who dobbed him in!
RTB said:
I know a guy (drinks in my old local) who lived a couple of miles up a single track lane out in the sticks. He would trundle his Landrover down the lane and park it a few hundred yards from the pub. Walk the last few hundred yards, have 3 pints of bitter, walk back to his Landrover and trundle back up the lane.
He had done this for years, until one night plod (probably on a tip off) followed him down the lane and nicked him as he got in his Landrover. He was a HGV driver by trade and spent a very tense 20 minutes in the back of the plod car waiting to be tested. He was under the limit, but not by much. Suffice to say he walks down to the pub and gets his Mrs to give him a lift back.
He never did find out who dobbed him in!
On a similar note, old farmer chap that used to drink in my old local , PROPER out in the sticks. The entrance to his farm was about 50 metres from the pub but it was a two mile ish private lane to the house. Used to get proper pissed, again, someone must have dobbed because they were waiting by the entrance. He staggered up the road to the entrance and they tried to stop him............until he pointed out to them he was on his private land and, in his own inimitable way, told them to 'f*** off from it' He had done this for years, until one night plod (probably on a tip off) followed him down the lane and nicked him as he got in his Landrover. He was a HGV driver by trade and spent a very tense 20 minutes in the back of the plod car waiting to be tested. He was under the limit, but not by much. Suffice to say he walks down to the pub and gets his Mrs to give him a lift back.
He never did find out who dobbed him in!
He literally used to bounce of the hedgerows all the way up the lane His old Disco was f****d Happens all too easily - before Christmas I was out for a few drinks. One thing lead to another and I had a few too many cocktails and then went onto the wine. Not a good idea. Knowing I was over the limit, I decided to leave my car at the pub and took a Bus home. Sure enough, I passed a police checkpoint, where they were pulling over drivers and performing breathalyser tests. Because I was in a Bus they just waved it past. I arrived home safely and without incident, which was a real surprise as I've never driven a Bus before and I am not even sure where I got it from....
I suppose the question is whether a lower limit would be an efficient way to improve road safety... people often hold up examples of people being involved in accidents when over the limit as evidence of the fact the limit needs to be lowered but that makes no sense to me, surely the question is whether people marginally under the current limit are causing proportionally more accidents than people who are well under the limit?
I have no particular basis for this but I suspect the number of accidents where alcohol is a significant contributor whilst the driver is under the current limit is probably vanishingly small. Certainly far smaller than the number of accidents caused by people driving when tired, for example.
Also worth pointing out that despite having a relatively high drink-driving limit, we have damned nearly the safest roads in the world by almost all metrics.
I have no particular basis for this but I suspect the number of accidents where alcohol is a significant contributor whilst the driver is under the current limit is probably vanishingly small. Certainly far smaller than the number of accidents caused by people driving when tired, for example.
Also worth pointing out that despite having a relatively high drink-driving limit, we have damned nearly the safest roads in the world by almost all metrics.
kambites said:
I suppose the question is whether a lower limit would be an efficient way to improve road safety... people often hold up examples of people being involved in accidents when over the limit as evidence of the fact the limit needs to be lowered but that makes no sense to me, surely the question is whether people marginally under the current limit are causing proportionally more accidents than people who are well under the limit?
I have no particular basis for this but I suspect the number of accidents where alcohol is a significant contributor whilst the driver is under the current limit is probably vanishingly small. Certainly far smaller than the number of accidents caused by people driving when tired, for example.
That would be my view also, but then if you were in a bad accident but under the limit would you always be wondering if the alchohol affected you? Like if you had an accident and doing 42mph, would you think if i'd been doing 38mph would that have made a difference? I dont mean "you" specifically by the way.I have no particular basis for this but I suspect the number of accidents where alcohol is a significant contributor whilst the driver is under the current limit is probably vanishingly small. Certainly far smaller than the number of accidents caused by people driving when tired, for example.
I think a zero tolerance approach wouldnt necessarily improve road safety.
Deep Thought said:
That would be my view also, but then if you were in a bad accident but under the limit would you always be wondering if the alchohol affected you?
Indeed, which is why people with direct experience of such things (from any standpoint) are exactly the wrong people to form a rational conclusion. I know I've come fairly close to an accident due to driving when very tired and consequently I'm extremely paranoid about it; almost certainly to an irrational degree.Here's a related, and hypothetical, conundrum I've often thought about - I live close to the Scottish border but on the English side
I have a pint in a country pub on the English side which places me within the limit in England but just over in Scotland. On the way home I wander over onto the Scottish side (only the main cross border routes are marked at the border). I get nabbed by Scottish plod and am over the limit for Scotland but would have passed a test in England.
Does the ensuing ban apply to my driving anywhere in the UK?
(not going to do this obviously just interested!)
I have a pint in a country pub on the English side which places me within the limit in England but just over in Scotland. On the way home I wander over onto the Scottish side (only the main cross border routes are marked at the border). I get nabbed by Scottish plod and am over the limit for Scotland but would have passed a test in England.
Does the ensuing ban apply to my driving anywhere in the UK?
(not going to do this obviously just interested!)
What I don't like is when you read about a driver who has killed someone after they've had 10 pints, way over the limit, and people use this as a reason to reduce the drink drive limit. That person knows they are over the limit and is choosing to drive.
The important thing in my opinion to establish how well placed our drink drive limit is, is how many accidents/injuries/deaths are caused by drivers who have been drinking, but are under the limit. Drivers who are consciously sticking within the limits, but have been in involved in an incident. Was alcohol a contributing factor in those cases, or would it have played out exactly the same if they were completely free of alcohol?
The very most I'd drive after is 2 pints, but only if it's been spaced out over at least an hour. I have a 35 mile commute each way and regularly take a suitcase to work with me so I'd have no chance of continuing my job if I were to lose my licence.
The important thing in my opinion to establish how well placed our drink drive limit is, is how many accidents/injuries/deaths are caused by drivers who have been drinking, but are under the limit. Drivers who are consciously sticking within the limits, but have been in involved in an incident. Was alcohol a contributing factor in those cases, or would it have played out exactly the same if they were completely free of alcohol?
The very most I'd drive after is 2 pints, but only if it's been spaced out over at least an hour. I have a 35 mile commute each way and regularly take a suitcase to work with me so I'd have no chance of continuing my job if I were to lose my licence.
I used to go for work nights out and drive back, but it was two pints in the pub at 6, so finished drinking by seven and then went for a meal, no more beer and then drive home about 11, was comfortable with that but wouldn't drive straight away, pretty confident the bulk of the alcohol had left my system.
Weirdly, the thought that I had had anything that evening made me drive like a nun on the way back.
Anyone tried the breath testers you can buy ?
Weirdly, the thought that I had had anything that evening made me drive like a nun on the way back.
Anyone tried the breath testers you can buy ?
I've no real opinions on this matter, but I found this fascinating:
I know everyone varies, but still, even if I'm a lightweight, the fact I think even 1 pint would see my unsafe says a lot.
J4CKO said:
The Policeman said it actually takes a fair amount to put someone over the limit, i was doing a bit of reading on it and found this. We used to mess with the Breathalysers when I worked at GMP, three pints of lager at lunch only just put me over, on an empty stomach, and that was briefly, no way I would have driven.
Wow - that's really surprising, shocking and worrying. As a driver who's raced for 18 years with no accidents and also had a reasonable amount of and regular further advanced road training, I'm fairly sure that I'm safer than average on the road, which is backed up by my road driving history. However, there is no way that I'm anywhere near a decent standard of driving safety after two pints, let alone three I know everyone varies, but still, even if I'm a lightweight, the fact I think even 1 pint would see my unsafe says a lot.I don't know if I'd change it or not. I'm a fairly big guy (6'4", 100kg) with a fast metabolism so you'd think I would be able to drink a lot and keep a low blood alcohol level but as I seldom drink even one pint will make me feel completely incapable of driving safely (or walking in a straight line) though it only lasts about an hour. Other people who drink regularly seem to be able to sink several pints without any significant effect on how they feel, I wonder if the incapacitating effects are proportional to how drunk you feel or your blood alcohol level.
I wouldn't support a zero limit as that would see people banned for one stray Christmas chocolate but perhaps the limit could go lower than it is, in line with Europe perhaps.
I wouldn't support a zero limit as that would see people banned for one stray Christmas chocolate but perhaps the limit could go lower than it is, in line with Europe perhaps.
Another issue is that blood alcohol is a very poor indicator of inebriation. Like most drugs the human body can build up significant resistance to alcohol - someone who drinks significantly and regularly can drink a couple of pints with very little cognitive impairment; for someone of similar weight who doesn't usually drink, those two pints will give them much the same blood alcohol level but have a very different effect on their brain. In a way the old American "can you walk in a straight line" test makes more sense than using blood alcohol level.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 15th January 16:36
NotBenny said:
What I don't like is when you read about a driver who has killed someone after they've had 10 pints, way over the limit, and people use this as a reason to reduce the drink drive limit. That person knows they are over the limit and is choosing to drive.
The BBC are really bad for that sort of thing - "Calls for reduced limit on alchohol" - "on the back of calls to reduce the alchohol limit as new figures of alcohol related road deaths are released, we speak to Maeve whos son was mowed down by a drunk last year. Maeve - do you agree the limit should be reduced?"Edited by Deep Thought on Tuesday 15th January 17:31
heard an amusing story @ Xmas whilst in France at our local 'English' pub.
Barmaid used to work in another bar a few years ago and had a regular who got stopped for DUI several times until eventually they took his licence off him.
So in France the next step is to drive a 'sans permit' put-put, you know the thing, single cyl diesel top speed 60kph or so, again got stopped several times for DUI so was 'banned' again from these and had it crushed.
Next mode of transport is the bicycle for him.....yes you've guessed, stopped time and time again, wandering all over the roads and the Mayor/Police took his bike away !
the staff and regulars were waiting for the next installment where they took away his shoes
Police stops are common over there after 2pm when lunch is finished, evenings seem a lot safer, no plod to be seen anywhere usually.
the French also seem to like their 'Apero's' before going to meals ,parties etc, i've seen them down 2 or 3 Ricards etc and not diluted as much as you'd think so they're already probably over the limit before starting the serious stuff later.
Barmaid used to work in another bar a few years ago and had a regular who got stopped for DUI several times until eventually they took his licence off him.
So in France the next step is to drive a 'sans permit' put-put, you know the thing, single cyl diesel top speed 60kph or so, again got stopped several times for DUI so was 'banned' again from these and had it crushed.
Next mode of transport is the bicycle for him.....yes you've guessed, stopped time and time again, wandering all over the roads and the Mayor/Police took his bike away !
the staff and regulars were waiting for the next installment where they took away his shoes
Police stops are common over there after 2pm when lunch is finished, evenings seem a lot safer, no plod to be seen anywhere usually.
the French also seem to like their 'Apero's' before going to meals ,parties etc, i've seen them down 2 or 3 Ricards etc and not diluted as much as you'd think so they're already probably over the limit before starting the serious stuff later.
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