Parking Ticket "business bay"
Discussion
Hi folks,
I have just got a residents parking permit in Stockwell (Lambeth Council). It's an e-permit valid in zone S. I parked outside my house in the permit holder only bays and came back to a ticket.
It appears there is a difference between a "residents' bay" (SR) and a "business bay" (SB) but when the permit confirmation came through it didn't define whether I have an SR or SB, just that I am able to park in zone S with a map outlining the roads on which I can park.
I expect this is a hangover from the times before e-permits where your physical window permit would have a code on, there is nothing on their website about SB or SR permits, and given I'd got the permit and was parked right outside my flat I'm feeling pretty hard done by. I thought the computer just hadn't updated the fact I'd got the permit so left the car there today and now I'm expecting a second ticket.
There is also nothing on the road surface to mark the bay as a business bay, and while there is a line between the two SR and SB sections (and a sign, in fairness), there was a car parked across it when I parked there.
I might be barking up the wrong tree but any advice greatly appreciated. I have submitted a challenge on the grounds that I have a zone S parking permit and SR and SB is undefined.
Image of sign and permit confirmation email attached.
Cheers
Lee
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/pNDEAcbr[/url]
I have just got a residents parking permit in Stockwell (Lambeth Council). It's an e-permit valid in zone S. I parked outside my house in the permit holder only bays and came back to a ticket.
It appears there is a difference between a "residents' bay" (SR) and a "business bay" (SB) but when the permit confirmation came through it didn't define whether I have an SR or SB, just that I am able to park in zone S with a map outlining the roads on which I can park.
I expect this is a hangover from the times before e-permits where your physical window permit would have a code on, there is nothing on their website about SB or SR permits, and given I'd got the permit and was parked right outside my flat I'm feeling pretty hard done by. I thought the computer just hadn't updated the fact I'd got the permit so left the car there today and now I'm expecting a second ticket.
There is also nothing on the road surface to mark the bay as a business bay, and while there is a line between the two SR and SB sections (and a sign, in fairness), there was a car parked across it when I parked there.
I might be barking up the wrong tree but any advice greatly appreciated. I have submitted a challenge on the grounds that I have a zone S parking permit and SR and SB is undefined.
Image of sign and permit confirmation email attached.
Cheers
Lee
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/pNDEAcbr[/url]
Edited by indapendentlee on Friday 1st March 12:15
Edited by indapendentlee on Friday 1st March 13:43
I'd be surprised if you have much luck challenging it. Even if a car was parked over the dividing line - I doubt the car was tall enough to obscure the sign which clearly indicates where each section starts.
It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
davek_964 said:
I'd be surprised if you have much luck challenging it. Even if a car was parked over the dividing line - I doubt the car was tall enough to obscure the sign which clearly indicates where each section starts.
It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
Yeah I think I'm battling but the fact SR and SB are not defined anywhere, nor on my permit just makes it feel a bit harsh. Happy to take it on the chin if I've yipped up but this feels like an injustice!It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
davek_964 said:
I'd be surprised if you have much luck challenging it. Even if a car was parked over the dividing line - I doubt the car was tall enough to obscure the sign which clearly indicates where each section starts.
It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
The permit states S, that would indicate it includes SR and SB to me. Without further definition how would you know? It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
WinstonWolf said:
davek_964 said:
I'd be surprised if you have much luck challenging it. Even if a car was parked over the dividing line - I doubt the car was tall enough to obscure the sign which clearly indicates where each section starts.
It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
The permit states S, that would indicate it includes SR and SB to me. Without further definition how would you know? It does seem a bit unreasonable that your permit doesn't state SR or SB - but on the other hand, I suspect they'll take the approach that you should know yourself whether you're a resident or a business.
eybic said:
That's my thinking too, no mention of "Business" just "B" but I would assume (incorrectly apparently) that I could park in any zone labelled as S.
As a lay person, I would agree with the above. I wouldn't know that SB related to a business parking space. The permit should state SR frankly. Reckon this would be a reasonably simple challenge.davek_964 said:
Er - the permit has appeared in the OP post now - it may not say "SR" but it says zone S, and permit type "Residents"!
"Zone in which you can park : Stockwell (S)"It's in zone S, should be a fairly easy appeal I would have thought. The wording and the signage don't relate to each other.
eybic said:
But the sign doesn't differentiate between resident or business, just says SB or SR. If you didn't know that B referred to business and there is no reference to that, surely they can't enforce the OP's ticket?
The permit *should* read:
"Zone in which you can park : Stockwell (SR)"
The current wording is ambiguous.
OP
put this on pepipoo in the council thread use the photo on her and take pics of all sides of the council ticket with personal details redacted
( i think you have to go via a third party hosting site, but there are instructions on what to do)
Let the boys on there have a look, you MAY have 'procedural impropriety' as a case, again they need to see everything
Just do as they ask and if anything needs to be sent DO NOT sent it to thecouncil until they have had a look. Mr Mustard is pretty good at th small print on council tickets and if it has legs may well go pro bono for you
As I aid just see what they say. They do not do everything, but expect you too do some work, they will always fine tune it for you
First course of action is to ask them if there is a chance the warden has been a bit enthusiastic, if you are bang to rights they will tell you,
It doesnt cost anything and may well save you some cash
put this on pepipoo in the council thread use the photo on her and take pics of all sides of the council ticket with personal details redacted
( i think you have to go via a third party hosting site, but there are instructions on what to do)
Let the boys on there have a look, you MAY have 'procedural impropriety' as a case, again they need to see everything
Just do as they ask and if anything needs to be sent DO NOT sent it to thecouncil until they have had a look. Mr Mustard is pretty good at th small print on council tickets and if it has legs may well go pro bono for you
As I aid just see what they say. They do not do everything, but expect you too do some work, they will always fine tune it for you
First course of action is to ask them if there is a chance the warden has been a bit enthusiastic, if you are bang to rights they will tell you,
It doesnt cost anything and may well save you some cash
mmm-five said:
if I were the council jobsworth, I'd read it that as his permit says zone 'S' not 'SR' or 'SB' - so he'll have to find somewhere that is just 'S' or risk a ticket.
At which point I'd be directing said jobsworth to the CPZ map on the Lambeth website, which shows quite clearly where the road they parked on is located relative to the area highlighted as zone S on said map...Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff