Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!
Discussion
Vaud said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk...
The top ten weirdest laws in Britain today
1. All beached whales and sturgeons must be offered to the Reigning Monarch
2. No person shall, in the course of a business, import into England, potatoes which he knows, or has reasonable cause to suspect, are from Poland
3. It is Illegal to be drunk in the pub
4. It is illegal to carry a plank along a pavement (as well as any ladder, wheel, pole, cask, placard, showboard, or hoop) in the Metropolitan Police District
5. MPs are not allowed to wear armour in Parliament
6. It is an offence to be drunk and in charge of cattle in England and Wales
7. It is illegal to handle a salmon in suspicious circumstances
8. It is an offence to beat or shake any carpet, rug, or mat (except door mats before 8am) in a thoroughfare in the Metropolitan Police District
9. It is illegal to jump the queue in the Tube ticket hall
10. It is illegal to activate your burglar alarm without first nominating a ‘Key-Holder’ who can switch it off in your absence
Is all this true The top ten weirdest laws in Britain today
1. All beached whales and sturgeons must be offered to the Reigning Monarch
2. No person shall, in the course of a business, import into England, potatoes which he knows, or has reasonable cause to suspect, are from Poland
3. It is Illegal to be drunk in the pub
4. It is illegal to carry a plank along a pavement (as well as any ladder, wheel, pole, cask, placard, showboard, or hoop) in the Metropolitan Police District
5. MPs are not allowed to wear armour in Parliament
6. It is an offence to be drunk and in charge of cattle in England and Wales
7. It is illegal to handle a salmon in suspicious circumstances
8. It is an offence to beat or shake any carpet, rug, or mat (except door mats before 8am) in a thoroughfare in the Metropolitan Police District
9. It is illegal to jump the queue in the Tube ticket hall
10. It is illegal to activate your burglar alarm without first nominating a ‘Key-Holder’ who can switch it off in your absence
bigandclever said:
milkround said:
The original officer to use her words said 'it doesn't look like you set out to hit him - it looked more like a natural reaction'.
That’s the one you formally complained about, right?Said in her own words I reacted instinctively and then wanted admission for assault. She wouldn't let it go so my complaint.
Time will tell if I will regret my saying no. Right now I don't.
For what it's worth if I ever attempt to grab you and you knock you to the ground, feel free to give me a shove when getting up. I'll deserve it. If I walk away without a single mark I'll think myself lucky and not complain to the police about you.
Perhaps those knocking me can ask themselves - if they went after someone who they realized to be totally innocent,t who responded not leaving a single mark would you regret your actions or call 999? The police can respond the same night to not a single injury but my brand new bike was robbed and they didn't even come out.
My point is... It doesn't take a genius to realize I didn't thump him. I played rugby for 15 years. I was never punched properly and it didn't leave a mark. And if I decided to be naughty in a ruck/maul and someone gave me some afters I'd never dream of whinging to the ref. In this case I shoved someoen back.
I'm not a violent person. I'm someone who was attacked. And I won't have the Police try and change that - simply to protect a security gaurd (or a huge corporation form civil action). I was never ever going to sue. But if I win in court I'll be banging in a claim for unlawful arrest/assault using this evidence. The whole thing is a disgrace. I wish I had the CCT to show. But I never went for a fight. I was set upon. I was very chilled in reality.
Just for clarity OP can you confirm how you came to be on the ground?
I’m sure the story started out as him coming and knocking you over and kicking you but it has since been falling in the scuffle and you just falling over backing away and the kicking isn’t mentioned anymore
If it’s a case of you backing away falling over getting up and pushing/ thumping the guy I can see why the police may be favouring him.
If it’s him taking you down violently and continuing to attack on the ground I have a bit more sympathy to your cause for lashing out in self defence.
I’m sure the story started out as him coming and knocking you over and kicking you but it has since been falling in the scuffle and you just falling over backing away and the kicking isn’t mentioned anymore
If it’s a case of you backing away falling over getting up and pushing/ thumping the guy I can see why the police may be favouring him.
If it’s him taking you down violently and continuing to attack on the ground I have a bit more sympathy to your cause for lashing out in self defence.
RB Will said:
Just for clarity OP can you confirm how you came to be on the ground?
I’m sure the story started out as him coming and knocking you over and kicking you but it has since been falling in the scuffle and you just falling over backing away and the kicking isn’t mentioned anymore
If it’s a case of you backing away falling over getting up and pushing/ thumping the guy I can see why the police may be favouring him.
If it’s him taking you down violently and continuing to attack on the ground I have a bit more sympathy to your cause for lashing out in self defence.
I felt I was tripped. He says I fell. The video is inconclusive. Being brutally honest it looks more like I tripped. But it's dark and blurry and that's just my opinion. It does show him kicking me. And it does show me getting up and before I'm fully up my arm goes forward and connects with his upper body area (can't tell if it's chest or head, I remember head). The police say 'that's definitely a punch' I'd assume they are more expert at looking at grainy footage than me,(I'm not convinced as you can't see my arm or hand as the camera is directly behind me), and the solicitor seemed to not agree with them. I’m sure the story started out as him coming and knocking you over and kicking you but it has since been falling in the scuffle and you just falling over backing away and the kicking isn’t mentioned anymore
If it’s a case of you backing away falling over getting up and pushing/ thumping the guy I can see why the police may be favouring him.
If it’s him taking you down violently and continuing to attack on the ground I have a bit more sympathy to your cause for lashing out in self defence.
The reality is that I openly admit I applied force to him. And as some have said assault is assault no matter if it's a shove, a punch or simply tickling someone if they don't like it. My defence is I was defending myself from him and I was trying to get away. It will be up to the magistrates/DJ how they see all of this.
Tbh I see all of this as a monumental waste of police time. And I can sort of see why they wanted to bin it off now. I was literally devastated when I found my bike wasn't where I left it. And all I got was a reference number as 'no viable lines of enquiry' so they didn't come out. I'd rather live in a society where the police were out looking for those stealing cars/bikes/burgling than dealing with two idiots squabbling in a car park. But they were called and probably had to do something. I've been very critical of the Police and with time for reflection feel I was a bit harsh. I don't agree with them trying to force me to accept the RJ but I do see why they wanted it to go away.
milkround said:
I don't agree with them trying to force me to accept the RJ but I do see why they wanted it to go away.
I'm not sure what you mean by this.If you mean it was more convenient and less work for the police to get rid of the job by pressurising you into accepting a Community Resolution then that isn't what that method of disposal is designed for.
It's irrelevant how busy they may be or what the individual officer's caseload is.
Perhaps if things were looked at differently from the outset then words of advice all round would have been more appropriate and the job dealt with that way ?
Sorry to hear about your bike, BTW. They say bad things happen in threes.
You've has this assault business, losing your job and had your bike nicked.
Hopefully that's all three !
Red 4 said:
Perhaps if things were looked at differently from the outset then words of advice all round would have been more appropriate and the job dealt with that way ?
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Just not very well. Hope you are right about the 3's. I can do with some good luck for a change.
milkround said:
I played rugby for 15 years. I was never punched properly and it didn't leave a mark. And if I decided to be naughty in a ruck/maul and someone gave me some afters I'd never dream of whinging to the ref.
That’s lovely, but Sainsbury’s isn’t a rugby pitch, and your personal opinions on ‘whinging’ aren’t more important than laws created by a society. Greshamst said:
milkround said:
I played rugby for 15 years. I was never punched properly and it didn't leave a mark. And if I decided to be naughty in a ruck/maul and someone gave me some afters I'd never dream of whinging to the ref.
That’s lovely, but Sainsbury’s isn’t a rugby pitch, and your personal opinions on ‘whinging’ aren’t more important than laws created by a society. Dromedary66 said:
When you're found guilty and get a criminal record is this going to affect applying for future jobs?
Depends on what job it is I'd imagine. For some haulage jobs I'd say a criminal record would be near enough a requirement. But for working in a hospital I'd say it was a problem.
I'll worry about that if I'm found guilty. For most of the sort of jobs I'd be interested it probably wouldn't be a gamechanger.
milkround said:
RB Will said:
Just for clarity OP can you confirm how you came to be on the ground?
I’m sure the story started out as him coming and knocking you over and kicking you but it has since been falling in the scuffle and you just falling over backing away and the kicking isn’t mentioned anymore
If it’s a case of you backing away falling over getting up and pushing/ thumping the guy I can see why the police may be favouring him.
If it’s him taking you down violently and continuing to attack on the ground I have a bit more sympathy to your cause for lashing out in self defence.
I felt I was tripped. He says I fell. The video is inconclusive. Being brutally honest it looks more like I tripped. But it's dark and blurry and that's just my opinion. It does show him kicking me. And it does show me getting up and before I'm fully up my arm goes forward and connects with his upper body area (can't tell if it's chest or head, I remember head). The police say 'that's definitely a punch' I'd assume they are more expert at looking at grainy footage than me,(I'm not convinced as you can't see my arm or hand as the camera is directly behind me), and the solicitor seemed to not agree with them........ I’m sure the story started out as him coming and knocking you over and kicking you but it has since been falling in the scuffle and you just falling over backing away and the kicking isn’t mentioned anymore
If it’s a case of you backing away falling over getting up and pushing/ thumping the guy I can see why the police may be favouring him.
If it’s him taking you down violently and continuing to attack on the ground I have a bit more sympathy to your cause for lashing out in self defence.
Without being there, and without seeing the video footage, I'm suspecting that what really happen is, you got a major cob on with the security guy talking to you in an aggressive manner, suggesting you hadn't paid for some, or all of your shopping, rather than remaining calm and getting everything sorted out, the red mist has come down and you've decided to storm off out of the shop, causing the guard to come after you, as it appeared to him that you were leaving the store without paying.
As the guard has followed you across the car park (probably still calling/shouting at you), you've tripped up, all of your own accord, but as you were no longer thinking clearly (your words - not mine), you've convinced yourself that the security guard has tripped you up deliberately, and so you have got off the ground and thrown a hand/fist at the guard, making contact with him (committing common assault at that point).
You say the blurry video footage clearly shows the security guard kicking you, but is too blurry to make out if you punch him or not - That doesn't tally up! If the footage is as blurry as you claim, I suspect it could just as easily show the security guard steeping towards you after you'd tripped up and fallen, with his leg coming to rest right next to you, to either restrain you, or even help you back up.
Your: changing a Renault cambelt/I can reverse an artic trailer better than any of you! nonsense was a nice attempt to try to make yourself out to be a jovial, happy go lucky, likeable chap, which may well be the case for most of the time, but this whole thread says to me that in certain situations, you lose the plot, don't think straight, and fly of the handle, causing yourself loads of grief (Which is a bit of worry, given that you drive artic trucks for a living! ).
One thing this whole thread does do, is demonstrate nicely how not to react when approached/confronted by a security guard or Police Officer, even if you know you've done nothing wrong, and you don't like the way they are talking to you. Don't get bolshy, and all: "fk you!......I've done nothing wrong!", and try to storm off - It's far better to keep your cool, and sort the whole matter out in calm, relaxed manner, in order to prevent things escalating to a stupid level, as has happened here.
4rephill said:
One thing this whole thread does do, is demonstrate nicely how not to react when approached/confronted by a security guard or Police Officer, even if you know you've done nothing wrong, and you don't like the way they are talking to you. Don't get bolshy, and all: "fk you!......I've done nothing wrong!", and try to storm off - It's far better to keep your cool, and sort the whole matter out in calm, relaxed manner, in order to prevent things escalating to a stupid level, as has happened here.
But we didn't need this thread to do that.Bert
4rephill said:
you got a major cob on with the security guy talking to you in an aggressive manner, suggesting you hadn't paid for some, or all of your shopping, rather than remaining calm and getting everything sorted out, the red mist has come down and you've decided to storm off out of the shop,
Which is probably at least somewhat true.If thats the case, the SG needs better training or a different job. It would be interesting if his personnel records could be obtained and if there have been any other incidents of this type during his employment. Not sure if its allowed but might build a picture of how he handles such incidents (though it could backfire i suppose if his HR record is full of praise and commendations)
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