Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!
Discussion
I'm saddened to hear the verdict.
From what you have said it appears the solicitors have let you down - badly.
What was their reasoning/ excuse concerning disclosure (or lack of disclosure ) ?
Why did the solicitor turn up 2.5 hours late ? That will not have gone down well with the magistrates. They will regard it as a complete lack of respect for the court process. Not a good start to the proceedings ...
Why wasn't your original solicitor there ?
Why did they send a solicitor with no knowledge of your case ?
Why didn't the solicitor have a game plan - specifically concerning the lawfulness of the arrest and testing the evidence of the aggrieved and/ or witnesses.
It seems to me that you provided your defence to them on a plate but the solicitors did not argue the points. That is unacceptable. How much has their "advice" and "representation" cost you ? Do you think they did their job ?
Having said all that - it is now up to you what you do next.
An appeal against conviction would go to Crown Court - and things are, generally, better dealt with there. But it all costs. And it is stressful.
No easy answers here ...
If you took the money issue and stress out of the equation you could say you have nothing to lose ...
I feel for you. I really do. That was not the result I was expecting based on your posts here.
From what you have said it appears the solicitors have let you down - badly.
What was their reasoning/ excuse concerning disclosure (or lack of disclosure ) ?
Why did the solicitor turn up 2.5 hours late ? That will not have gone down well with the magistrates. They will regard it as a complete lack of respect for the court process. Not a good start to the proceedings ...
Why wasn't your original solicitor there ?
Why did they send a solicitor with no knowledge of your case ?
Why didn't the solicitor have a game plan - specifically concerning the lawfulness of the arrest and testing the evidence of the aggrieved and/ or witnesses.
It seems to me that you provided your defence to them on a plate but the solicitors did not argue the points. That is unacceptable. How much has their "advice" and "representation" cost you ? Do you think they did their job ?
Having said all that - it is now up to you what you do next.
An appeal against conviction would go to Crown Court - and things are, generally, better dealt with there. But it all costs. And it is stressful.
No easy answers here ...
If you took the money issue and stress out of the equation you could say you have nothing to lose ...
I feel for you. I really do. That was not the result I was expecting based on your posts here.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 10th December 10:36
Petrus1983 said:
Done. Really easy site to use too.
Yep very easy to do. I don’t mind helping out. Sorry it’s not gone as you hoped Milkround. If you choose not to fight it use my donation to take your misses for a pint. I should think that’s the least you owe her due to the stress of this. Edited by MB140 on Tuesday 10th December 13:01
Edited by chris.mod on Tuesday 10th December 21:09
PorkInsider said:
I'm really surprised and saddened to read of the outcome, Milky.
Also quite sad to see some PHers gloating and laughing at the result.
What a community...
I’m not gloating and I’m not sure anyone is (I’m not re-Reading every post Also quite sad to see some PHers gloating and laughing at the result.
What a community...
) but a lot of people, including the OP, point out that this could all have been avoided from the beginning.None of us really know the full details of what happened but for many of us the people who count have passed their judgement and that’s enough.
Personally I’d move on and put this behind me, but I’d also have complied with the security guard in the first place.
Commiserations Milkround, but I'm sure deep down you know, from reading opinions here from people that actually know about the law, that this result was more than likely. Even your own brief told you it was 50/50.
You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
Edited by topsey.mod on Tuesday 10th December 15:05
MB140 said:
Yep very easy to do. I don’t mind helping out. Sorry it’s not gone as you hoped Milkround. If you choose not to fight it use my donation to take your misses for a pint. I should think that’s the least you owe her due to the stress of this.
Snap - if you decide against it that’s fine - grab a few pints/meal and put the rest in a charity box.Edited by MB140 on Tuesday 10th December 13:01
hutchst said:
Commiserations Milkround, but I'm sure deep down you know, from reading opinions here from people that actually know about the law, that this result was more than likely. Even your own brief told you it was 50/50.
You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
Talking of that, I see that constable Savage is back, hidiing behind his internet disguise Red 4. I hope that this time you will have the good sense to ignore his drivel.
I am saddened that the op has been found guilty of assault.You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
Talking of that, I see that constable Savage is back, hidiing behind his internet disguise Red 4. I hope that this time you will have the good sense to ignore his drivel.
I am also saddened by the quality of legal representation he appears to have received on the day.
It's up to milkround what he does next. Whatever he does I'll do my best to support him.
He comes across as a decent sort.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 10th December 13:58
Edited by topsey.mod on Tuesday 10th December 15:07
Edited by topsey.mod on Tuesday 10th December 15:07
hutchst said:
Commiserations Milkround, but I'm sure deep down you know, from reading opinions here from people that actually know about the law, that this result was more than likely. Even your own brief told you it was 50/50.
You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
Talking of that, I see that constable Savage is back, hidiing behind his internet disguise Red 4. I hope that this time you will have the good sense to ignore his drivel.
Thanks huchst . Any blame lies with me and no one else on this website. I made my own decisions as a grown man. You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
Talking of that, I see that constable Savage is back, hidiing behind his internet disguise Red 4. I hope that this time you will have the good sense to ignore his drivel.
You win some and you lose some. I made my own decisions and can live with them.
I've followed this thread from the off, and credit to MR, he didn't flounce when faced with the usual PH keyboard warrior replies.
Sounds to me like your solicitor could have been better. Knowing your luck MR, you'll get a barrister equally as bad, so I'd put it behind you and move on.
Sounds to me like your solicitor could have been better. Knowing your luck MR, you'll get a barrister equally as bad, so I'd put it behind you and move on.
IANAL, however my understanding is that an appeal would be a retrial (rather than an examination of the original decision). In which case, if MR feels the verdict was a result of exclupatory evidence that was missing, a misapplication of the burden relating to his defence, an irrational preference of the other witnesses/Police evidence or anything else, the appeal would be a valid route to seek an alternative outcome.
The risks are that, even if you win, your costs awarded are likely to be less than you've actually spent. This is mitigated by people here offering to help fund your legal costs. If you lose, you're on the hook for both your own and some prosecution costs. Your sentence may be increased if found guilty again.
The potential gains are that you are found not guilty and retain your good name.
The risks are that, even if you win, your costs awarded are likely to be less than you've actually spent. This is mitigated by people here offering to help fund your legal costs. If you lose, you're on the hook for both your own and some prosecution costs. Your sentence may be increased if found guilty again.
The potential gains are that you are found not guilty and retain your good name.
Red 4 said:
The drivel was all yours. Check the thread. You posted utter, utter garbage.
I called you out on that and you took the huff. Unlucky.
I have neither egged on the op or "lived out a fantasy" at the op's expense. Why would I ? It is a strange statement to make.
The fact that you make those remarks says more about you than it says about me.
I called it as I saw it based on the op's posts.
I am saddened that the op has been found guilty of assault.
I am also saddened by the quality of legal representation he appears to have received on the day.
It's up to milkround what he does next. Whatever he does I'll do my best to support him.
He comes across as a decent sort.
Unlike you.
Good post right there.I called you out on that and you took the huff. Unlucky.
I have neither egged on the op or "lived out a fantasy" at the op's expense. Why would I ? It is a strange statement to make.
The fact that you make those remarks says more about you than it says about me.
I called it as I saw it based on the op's posts.
I am saddened that the op has been found guilty of assault.
I am also saddened by the quality of legal representation he appears to have received on the day.
It's up to milkround what he does next. Whatever he does I'll do my best to support him.
He comes across as a decent sort.
Unlike you.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 10th December 13:58
Really unimpressed with the legal representation going on what has been written.
Good luck milkround whatever you decide.
milkround said:
hutchst said:
Commiserations Milkround, but I'm sure deep down you know, from reading opinions here from people that actually know about the law, that this result was more than likely. Even your own brief told you it was 50/50.
You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
Talking of that, I see that constable Savage is back, hidiing behind his internet disguise Red 4. I hope that this time you will have the good sense to ignore his drivel.
Thanks huchst . Any blame lies with me and no one else on this website. I made my own decisions as a grown man. You have never denied assaulting the guard, but have tried, egged on by others on here living out their fantasies at your expense, to fabricate some kind of justification and then bend that to fit some outdated legal principles. You've been distracted by all sorts of rubbish about pace and scones and licences for bouncers. None of which was relevant.
Talking of that, I see that constable Savage is back, hidiing behind his internet disguise Red 4. I hope that this time you will have the good sense to ignore his drivel.
You win some and you lose some. I made my own decisions and can live with them.
It is all well and good for those who egging you on to fight this as they did last time but you are the one now suffering the consequences. You are fronting their hate of the police and the judicial system without any risk to anyone bar yourself and you will probably end up back here in a few months time saying the same as you are now having lost an appeal if you pursue this.
All the sage advice from day one was to swallow your pride and apologise, and those same posters will tell you to let this go and get on with your life.
Be wary of those who shout the loudest telling you to fight on, they have nothing to lose unlike you.
Do you really want to continue being their sacrificial lamb?
The legal representation has been very poor from the onset.
There should have been an application to have both the SG and the OP bound over to keep the peace by the OPs' solicitor. Telling the the court that court time and expense can be save over this trivial matter.
If not accepted by the CPS " no way our SG is the victim". Then go for a binding over only on the OP. This should have been done weeks before the trial. It saves costs and is fequently accepted so other more serious case can be delt with. But the problem is the solicitor does not get a day in court if the case is delt with by way of binding over .
Turning up 2.5 hours late without all the evidence in my mind means you don't get paid Mr solicitor And then it''s off to the proper court the crown court were the trial is started afresh from the start.
Unless the OP is familiar with 'the game' he has just put his trust in his solicitor
What this thread has demonstrated if anything is what a mess the legal system is in, as the Secret Barrister says.
There should have been an application to have both the SG and the OP bound over to keep the peace by the OPs' solicitor. Telling the the court that court time and expense can be save over this trivial matter.
If not accepted by the CPS " no way our SG is the victim". Then go for a binding over only on the OP. This should have been done weeks before the trial. It saves costs and is fequently accepted so other more serious case can be delt with. But the problem is the solicitor does not get a day in court if the case is delt with by way of binding over .
Turning up 2.5 hours late without all the evidence in my mind means you don't get paid Mr solicitor And then it''s off to the proper court the crown court were the trial is started afresh from the start.
Unless the OP is familiar with 'the game' he has just put his trust in his solicitor
What this thread has demonstrated if anything is what a mess the legal system is in, as the Secret Barrister says.
Monkeylegend said:
Do you really want to continue being their sacrificial lamb?
More like their scapegoat: A scapegoat is an animal that is burdened with the sins (=faults, false hopes?) of others, and then driven away, to be eaten by wolves. First appearing in Leviticus, in which a goat is chosen and cast into the desert to carry away the sins of the community.
MYOB said:
Are you seriously crowd funding for an appeal?
Seriously?
This must be a joke right?
Get real!
I'm sorry for what has happened but leave it now. It's not worth it.
As I read it he’s crowd funding to have a more senior person review the file to see if he should or not. MR has been extremely open about everything, even when things have been against him. I was happy to put something towards it as I’m sure I’m not the only person who’s learnt things from this whole process that may make a difference to how they act/react in the future. Seriously?
This must be a joke right?
Get real!
I'm sorry for what has happened but leave it now. It's not worth it.
Petrus1983 said:
MYOB said:
Are you seriously crowd funding for an appeal?
Seriously?
This must be a joke right?
Get real!
I'm sorry for what has happened but leave it now. It's not worth it.
As I read it he’s crowd funding to have a more senior person review the file to see if he should or not. MR has been extremely open about everything, even when things have been against him. I was happy to put something towards it as I’m sure I’m not the only person who’s learnt things from this whole process that may make a difference to how they act/react in the future. Seriously?
This must be a joke right?
Get real!
I'm sorry for what has happened but leave it now. It's not worth it.
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