Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!
Discussion
garyhun said:
Fastpedeller said:
garyhun said:
I know I'll never get into such a situation because I always act calm when I know I've nothing to hide, irrespective of whether the other person requests or demands something.
I don't think that is a realistic statement to make - things can go against you in unexpected ways. An abbreviated tale.... A friend and I many years ago riding our pedal bikes along a congested road approaching a roundabout at about 3mph in the line of traffic 2 abreast and intending to go via 2nd exit - riding 2 abreast for 'security' to prevent a car coming alongside and turning left. The traffic was literally that slow a pedestrian was walking quicker. Plod came behind in Jam Sandwich (I said many years ago!) and said over his PA system for us to ride single file. We did this. 8 miles further on we turned onto another road (very little traffic) and rode 2 abreast. After another mile plod came behind us, told us to pull over and read us the riot act, said he'd arrest us for 2 abreast riding (we calmly pointed out not an offence), so he said he'd arrest us for disobeying him (we pointed out we did obey him, this was 1/2 hour later on a different bit of road). He then became VERY abusive, calling us idiots and saying there were 'drivers out there who'd been drinking and we could be knocked off'. We kept calm and didn't ask him why he didn't go and arrest them, but we genuinely thought he was going to get physical! he took our details, and we heard no more, but it could so easily have been us in Milkrounds' position.
You stayed calm and all was well.
In a situation where someone is under stress, scared, Adrenalin running and god knows what else they have no control.
If you’re not used to be challenged by authority or the police you have no idea how you will react.
Flumpo said:
garyhun said:
Fastpedeller said:
garyhun said:
I know I'll never get into such a situation because I always act calm when I know I've nothing to hide, irrespective of whether the other person requests or demands something.
I don't think that is a realistic statement to make - things can go against you in unexpected ways. An abbreviated tale.... A friend and I many years ago riding our pedal bikes along a congested road approaching a roundabout at about 3mph in the line of traffic 2 abreast and intending to go via 2nd exit - riding 2 abreast for 'security' to prevent a car coming alongside and turning left. The traffic was literally that slow a pedestrian was walking quicker. Plod came behind in Jam Sandwich (I said many years ago!) and said over his PA system for us to ride single file. We did this. 8 miles further on we turned onto another road (very little traffic) and rode 2 abreast. After another mile plod came behind us, told us to pull over and read us the riot act, said he'd arrest us for 2 abreast riding (we calmly pointed out not an offence), so he said he'd arrest us for disobeying him (we pointed out we did obey him, this was 1/2 hour later on a different bit of road). He then became VERY abusive, calling us idiots and saying there were 'drivers out there who'd been drinking and we could be knocked off'. We kept calm and didn't ask him why he didn't go and arrest them, but we genuinely thought he was going to get physical! he took our details, and we heard no more, but it could so easily have been us in Milkrounds' position.
You stayed calm and all was well.
In a situation where someone is under stress, scared, Adrenalin running and god knows what else they have no control.
If you’re not used to be challenged by authority or the police you have no idea how you will react.
All else is irrelevant to what I posted.
I’m oot now!
Mandalore said:
Based on your extensive experience , what is the best way to achieve the suggested goal?
Do you do Pro Bono?
1. I have none. I am not advising the OP. He should not take legal advice from a car forum.Do you do Pro Bono?
2. Yes, lots. So what?
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 12th December 08:39
meatballs said:
garyhun said:
In the end ....... yes it was.
Anyway, moving on .....
No it wasn't you plum. The poster didn't get into bother but you've got a Anyway, moving on .....
of a police officer still walking around on duty abusing his position.You need to sit down and relax, you’ll blow a gasket
carinaman said:
Separation of Powers. The police are part of the Executive and do the policing bit. The Courts and Judges are part of the Judiciary and do the judging bit.
If plod spent less time being judgmental they'd have more time for policing. Plod being less judgmental would also fit with that impartiality thing mentioned on the Constables Oath.
MPs, the Legislature, pass laws. They're supposed to be separate from the Executive, that includes the police, and the Judiciary.
It's one of those checks and balances type things, where maintaining independence helps ensure things work properly and keeps things in check.
Gosh, fancy that, well I never. If plod spent less time being judgmental they'd have more time for policing. Plod being less judgmental would also fit with that impartiality thing mentioned on the Constables Oath.
MPs, the Legislature, pass laws. They're supposed to be separate from the Executive, that includes the police, and the Judiciary.
It's one of those checks and balances type things, where maintaining independence helps ensure things work properly and keeps things in check.
Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 11th December 20:24
Next lecture: Planet Earth is round.
xjay1337 said:
yellowjack said:
snip
Jesus. How the fk can that work? If the second, it just goes to show that the judiciary can get things badly wrong. The judge in my case decided to dismiss evidence showing that I was, at the time of the collision in which I was alleged to have been involved, actually queuing up to pay for petrol I'd purchased around five miles away from the collision. Police traffic cameras also recorded my car on that road, at a location distant from the reported collision. At no time did I deny being on the road, and the police deemed there to be no evidence requiring reporting me for the offence of failing to stop/failing to report a collision. Different to the OP's case though, as this was a civil case. In a criminal trial the prosecution need to prove their case "beyond reasonable doubt" to a jury or a panel of magistrates. In a civil case it is heard by just one judge, not even a panel of three, and decided "upon the balance of probabilities". And on the balance of probabilities this one judge took the side of a snivelling wretch who lied repeatedly and constantly claimed that his claimed "time of collision" was only a rough estimate as he "didn't have a means of telling the time" when he was involved in his collision. Never mind that I'd just retired "after 25 years of irreproachable service" to the Crown and had been trusted for the last seven years of that service to single-handedly, and with a minimum of supervision, look after the operational and training ammunition and explosives accounts for a front-line EOD regiment. But still a judge sided with a Mockney spiv who, working as a construction site manager in 2011, claimed to not possess a mobile telephone, a wristwatch, or a clock in his car. Which conveniently allowed him to alter the time of the event to suit my being on that stretch of road. It still leaves a sour taste, even now. It caused friction at home with my wife doubting my integrity, and months later when I spotted that similar car being driven appallingly, I was glad my wife was in the car with me to witness it. I'm not sure you can appeal a civil court judgement, but even if you can, the claim was being fought by my insurance company (who were really good and behind me all the way), and it was them that decided they'd pursue the matter no further and abide by the judgement. I kinda wished I'd kept hold of the car now, as perhaps that looked suspicious, getting rid of it before the court case. But it had become a bit of a burden if I'm honest, it was long on miles and racking up bills at every service/MOT. Plus I'd retired and been paid a tidy lump sum and felt that my wife deserved a (nearly) new car experience for once in her life, after putting up with a series of low spec, high miles repmobiles through our time together. I'd like to say I'm over it now, but if I bumped into that slimy toe-rag again I'd be sorely tempted to set his damned car on fire "for old time's sake"...
meatballs said:
garyhun said:
In the end ....... yes it was.
Anyway, moving on .....
No it wasn't you plum. The poster didn't get into bother but you've got a Anyway, moving on .....
of a police officer still walking around on duty abusing his position.
Okay - so this is written as a bit of a diary and also as a warning to anyone who ever finds themselves in a position of facing a criminal trial. It's my memory of the day of the trial. All of it is biased based on how I perceived things. I have no legal knowledge or training so if I come across as naive it's because I am.
After my last trial I was told to be at court at 9.30am. The trial was not meant to kick off until 10am (the mags don't even start until then). But the solicitor would have a chance to catch up with me. Before I'd even got to court I had a set back. I had been away all week and had a letter from the solicitors. It explained the original solicitor could not attend so a junior barrister had been instructed. The barrister would have had a week to get to know the case. I didn't get back to England until Sunday and the trial was on Monday - so it was a bit of a shock. I was comforted that the letter said all the CCTV and other evidence has been passed to the baby barrister.
I actually arrived at just after 9. I had been warned if I didn't turn up on time I could have an arrest warrant issued, and the trial would start anyway. 9.30 came and I waited. 10am came and I waited. I was starting to panic a bit. I tried calling the solicitors but there was no answer. At 10.30 the usher (someone dressed like Harry Potter) said a solicitor had called and said they were running late. I asked if I could get a coffee and was told that was fine. So I went and got a coffee. It was the closest thing I had to a breakfast as I had no appetite.
At 11.30 a solicitor did rock up. But it wasn't the very junior barrister I was expecting (yeah I'd googled the name on the letter so was expecting a young ginger lady, not a middle aged women). At this point I was just glad someone was there. But at this point I started to worry. I shook hands and introduced myself and my partner. And the solicitor asked 'Is she expecting to give evidence as well?" It then dawned on me... The solicitor standing in front of me didn't know who my witnesses were meant to be, and my trial was meant to have already started.
In the court there are little rooms you go in and talk with solicitors. I saw solicitors frantically trying to find a free room, and then having to resort to having their meeting on the metal benches in public. So I went in with my solicitor to one of the little rooms. She explained she had only been given the case the night before. And that she wanted to go through my statement so she would know what I was going to say. I asked her about CCTV. She said she thought she might have seen some but she didn't have any. I went and got my bag and showed it to her on my macbook. She explained to me that she needed to check if any of it had been served on the CPS. As it turned out it hadn't.
After this she went into the court and had a chat with the prosecutor and magistrates about something. I don't know what. What I do know is the next thing that happened was the usher came out and asked for me to come in. I went into the dock. I confirmed my name, DOB etc. My solicitor then said she'd like an early lunch (it was 12.25) so she could get her head around the case. The magistrates got pretty annoyed at this and agreed to it on the proviso that 'we must be able to proceed at 13.30'. After that I left the dock and went outside. I had another chat with the solicitor and then left to get lunch for me and my partner, my partner talked to the solicitor whilst I popped and brought a meal deal (I tempted fate and said I didn't need a receipt). We didn't have time to eat together, I munched mine down in double time and Beth ate hers whilst the first witness was giving evidence. At the shops for the first time in a long time I brought a packet of cigarettes. I felt I was going to need them.
I'll post about the trial next. That was the before bit. Well done if you have managed to read my ramblings.
After my last trial I was told to be at court at 9.30am. The trial was not meant to kick off until 10am (the mags don't even start until then). But the solicitor would have a chance to catch up with me. Before I'd even got to court I had a set back. I had been away all week and had a letter from the solicitors. It explained the original solicitor could not attend so a junior barrister had been instructed. The barrister would have had a week to get to know the case. I didn't get back to England until Sunday and the trial was on Monday - so it was a bit of a shock. I was comforted that the letter said all the CCTV and other evidence has been passed to the baby barrister.
I actually arrived at just after 9. I had been warned if I didn't turn up on time I could have an arrest warrant issued, and the trial would start anyway. 9.30 came and I waited. 10am came and I waited. I was starting to panic a bit. I tried calling the solicitors but there was no answer. At 10.30 the usher (someone dressed like Harry Potter) said a solicitor had called and said they were running late. I asked if I could get a coffee and was told that was fine. So I went and got a coffee. It was the closest thing I had to a breakfast as I had no appetite.
At 11.30 a solicitor did rock up. But it wasn't the very junior barrister I was expecting (yeah I'd googled the name on the letter so was expecting a young ginger lady, not a middle aged women). At this point I was just glad someone was there. But at this point I started to worry. I shook hands and introduced myself and my partner. And the solicitor asked 'Is she expecting to give evidence as well?" It then dawned on me... The solicitor standing in front of me didn't know who my witnesses were meant to be, and my trial was meant to have already started.
In the court there are little rooms you go in and talk with solicitors. I saw solicitors frantically trying to find a free room, and then having to resort to having their meeting on the metal benches in public. So I went in with my solicitor to one of the little rooms. She explained she had only been given the case the night before. And that she wanted to go through my statement so she would know what I was going to say. I asked her about CCTV. She said she thought she might have seen some but she didn't have any. I went and got my bag and showed it to her on my macbook. She explained to me that she needed to check if any of it had been served on the CPS. As it turned out it hadn't.
After this she went into the court and had a chat with the prosecutor and magistrates about something. I don't know what. What I do know is the next thing that happened was the usher came out and asked for me to come in. I went into the dock. I confirmed my name, DOB etc. My solicitor then said she'd like an early lunch (it was 12.25) so she could get her head around the case. The magistrates got pretty annoyed at this and agreed to it on the proviso that 'we must be able to proceed at 13.30'. After that I left the dock and went outside. I had another chat with the solicitor and then left to get lunch for me and my partner, my partner talked to the solicitor whilst I popped and brought a meal deal (I tempted fate and said I didn't need a receipt). We didn't have time to eat together, I munched mine down in double time and Beth ate hers whilst the first witness was giving evidence. At the shops for the first time in a long time I brought a packet of cigarettes. I felt I was going to need them.
I'll post about the trial next. That was the before bit. Well done if you have managed to read my ramblings.
Fastpedeller said:
meatballs said:
garyhun said:
In the end ....... yes it was.
Anyway, moving on .....
No it wasn't you plum. The poster didn't get into bother but you've got a Anyway, moving on .....
of a police officer still walking around on duty abusing his position.Red 4 said:
Fastpedeller said:
meatballs said:
garyhun said:
In the end ....... yes it was.
Anyway, moving on .....
No it wasn't you plum. The poster didn't get into bother but you've got a Anyway, moving on .....
of a police officer still walking around on duty abusing his position.Fastpedeller said:
Red 4 said:
Fastpedeller said:
meatballs said:
garyhun said:
In the end ....... yes it was.
Anyway, moving on .....
No it wasn't you plum. The poster didn't get into bother but you've got a Anyway, moving on .....
of a police officer still walking around on duty abusing his position.The police can record you on bodycams - nothing says you can't film them.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff