Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!
Discussion
bighop said:
Can't believe this is still going on. I even accepted my receipt at Asda this morning without realising why. I now remember it was to avoid a roll around in the car park with the fella on the door.
Behave.We're way beyond that now.
Finer points of law and first world questions need to be resolved.
The next question is - Can you cheat a machine ? ( A self service checkout ).
Please quote all relevant Acts and case law.
Answers on a very large postcard please ...
Red 4 said:
Behave.
We're way beyond that now.
Finer points of law and first world questions need to be resolved.
The next question is - Can you cheat a machine ? ( A self service checkout ).
Please quote all relevant Acts and case law.
Answers on a very large postcard please ...
You can now you couldn't when I needed to pass exams.. We're way beyond that now.
Finer points of law and first world questions need to be resolved.
The next question is - Can you cheat a machine ? ( A self service checkout ).
Please quote all relevant Acts and case law.
Answers on a very large postcard please ...
Red 4 said:
Behave.
We're way beyond that now.
Finer points of law and first world questions need to be resolved.
The next question is - Can you cheat a machine ? ( A self service checkout ).
Please quote all relevant Acts and case law.
Answers on a very large postcard please ...
To add even more comedy effect. Can you imagine this coppers face when she thinks she is dealing with a minor assault and I rock up with my folders full of case law, cps guidance, print outs of emails with the cps and other such over the top ness. I'll make sure to give it to the solicitor before I go in so they can't take it off me. We're way beyond that now.
Finer points of law and first world questions need to be resolved.
The next question is - Can you cheat a machine ? ( A self service checkout ).
Please quote all relevant Acts and case law.
Answers on a very large postcard please ...
That all being said. It is my life we are talking about here... Whilst it's not the crime of the century I do reckon if she is going to be bold enough to say I'll be going to court she should know the topic inside out and have investigated it properly.
I've seen 24 hours in police custody. I've yet to see someone cite the court of appeal or cps when answering questions. It will wind her up no doubt (just from speaking to her on the phone - she got lairy when I said I'd get my own copy of the cctv saying she knew how to do her job). But as I've said before if it were her accused of a crime she wouldn't be passively accepting it I'm sure.
Graveworm said:
Red 4 said:
Behave.
We're way beyond that now.
Finer points of law and first world questions need to be resolved.
The next question is - Can you cheat a machine ? ( A self service checkout ).
Please quote all relevant Acts and case law.
Answers on a very large postcard please ...
You can now you couldn't when I needed to pass exams.. We're way beyond that now.
Finer points of law and first world questions need to be resolved.
The next question is - Can you cheat a machine ? ( A self service checkout ).
Please quote all relevant Acts and case law.
Answers on a very large postcard please ...
OP - just be aware that you are facing a potential assault charge.
The rights and wrongs of the security guard's actions obviously play a part in the incident but you may wish to read up on reasonable force and defences to an assault charge.
I'd also echo what Dibble said earlier - get proper advice/ representation if the need arises.
The rights and wrongs of the security guard's actions obviously play a part in the incident but you may wish to read up on reasonable force and defences to an assault charge.
I'd also echo what Dibble said earlier - get proper advice/ representation if the need arises.
Red 4 said:
OP - just be aware that you are facing a potential assault charge.
The rights and wrongs of the security guard's actions obviously play a part in the incident but you may wish to read up on reasonable force and defences to an assault charge.
I'd also echo what Dibble said earlier - get proper advice/ representation if the need arises.
Well aware mate. The rights and wrongs of the security guard's actions obviously play a part in the incident but you may wish to read up on reasonable force and defences to an assault charge.
I'd also echo what Dibble said earlier - get proper advice/ representation if the need arises.
Got solicitor covered. If it gets more serious will throw some money at a decent one. Partner is the higher earner out of the two of us and says she will open up her bank account as she knows that I didn't either steal anything or set out to attack anyone.
Time will tell. Up until something happens there is no point in me worrying about it.
berlintaxi said:
milkround said:
Got solicitor covered. If it gets more serious will throw some money at a decent one.
Sounds like a great strategy, start with a crap but cheap solicitor then panic when his advice doesn't work out.
I hope your current solicitor isn't reading this thread.
berlintaxi said:
milkround said:
Got solicitor covered. If it gets more serious will throw some money at a decent one.
Sounds like a great strategy, start with a crap but cheap solicitor then panic when his advice doesn't work out.If he is charged then he will seek out a legal eagle to defend his case at court.
Seems a reasonable strategy to me.
Red 4 said:
berlintaxi said:
milkround said:
Got solicitor covered. If it gets more serious will throw some money at a decent one.
Sounds like a great strategy, start with a crap but cheap solicitor then panic when his advice doesn't work out.If he is charged then he will seek out a legal eagle to defend his case at court.
Seems a reasonable strategy to me.
milkround said:
[i]Then by contrast subsection (6) deals with a constable's powers of arrest which are very much wider than those of the citizen. It states:
"Where a constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting that an arrestable offence has been committed, he may arrest without a warrant anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of the offence."
Thus there are double reasonable grounds for suspecting, both as to the commission of the offence and the person who has committed it.[/i]
The only wording that had changed between then and now in the legislation is that they have changed arrestable to indictable. The court of appeal made it clear then. And the judgment still holds.
Remember those are not my words. You are trying to interpret the statute. But for your opinion to hold any weight you'd have to get the court of appeal (or a higher court) to change their minds. Or you'd have to get Parliament to pass new legislation.
If you doubt what I've said why not shoot an email to the CPS and ask them. Explain you work in security and want to know if you are lawfully entitled to make an arrest when you suspect an offence has been committed. You won't like the answer but it might save you some trouble at work sometime.
That’s pretty much my understanding of powers of arrest."Where a constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting that an arrestable offence has been committed, he may arrest without a warrant anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of the offence."
Thus there are double reasonable grounds for suspecting, both as to the commission of the offence and the person who has committed it.[/i]
The only wording that had changed between then and now in the legislation is that they have changed arrestable to indictable. The court of appeal made it clear then. And the judgment still holds.
Remember those are not my words. You are trying to interpret the statute. But for your opinion to hold any weight you'd have to get the court of appeal (or a higher court) to change their minds. Or you'd have to get Parliament to pass new legislation.
If you doubt what I've said why not shoot an email to the CPS and ask them. Explain you work in security and want to know if you are lawfully entitled to make an arrest when you suspect an offence has been committed. You won't like the answer but it might save you some trouble at work sometime.
Excuse me if I missed something along the way but have we established if the security officer actually arrested or tried to arrest you?
bad company said:
That’s pretty much my understanding of powers of arrest.
Excuse me if I missed something along the way but have we established if the security officer actually arrested or tried to arrest you?
No. Excuse me if I missed something along the way but have we established if the security officer actually arrested or tried to arrest you?
But without him claiming that he's acting totally unlawfully. And no one would be stupid enough to say that
milkround said:
No he did not. Furthermore the Police have confirmed that no complaint of theft has been made. His actions were down to me not going with him. The Police Lady says his actions were reasonable in light of this. It was me who asked repeatedly for the Police to be called. This was refused.
Sadly I'm not lucky enough to be married to my partner. But she will give a statement if needed. I raised this on the phone with the PC. She said that my partner was not a witness as she was involved. She also said I needed to 'produce an independent witness'. Which is not possible. She seems only interested in looking at things that support her narrative that I was in the wrong.
I do wonder if the calls from the police are recorded. They come through as a private number.
I have arranged for a solicitor to attend with me to the Police station which is arranged for the 24th April in the afternoon. I'll be getting the full CCTV if possible before then.
This is just a gut feeling - but given the PC has changed her story once about what was on the CCTV, I feel like she is just trying to put this in a box and sweep it under the carpet. Perhaps the local Police have a good working relationship with the security staff. But she was super keen for me to just sign an apology letter and not go back to the store. She wanted me to say I was wrong and for it to be forgotten about. If she genuinely felt I'd attacked someone I can't see that being the case.
I feel much better today. What is going to happen will happen. I'll do my best and tell the truth. If that isn't enough then I can't change it. Life will go on and I'll still be the same person. Tbh if I'm charged with anything I REALLY hope it's an either way offence or higher. I want this to be heard by a jury of my peers rather than by magistrates who (according to the internet) have less interest in the law than how they are feeling that day.
Next time; will you get a receipt and retain the receipt?Sadly I'm not lucky enough to be married to my partner. But she will give a statement if needed. I raised this on the phone with the PC. She said that my partner was not a witness as she was involved. She also said I needed to 'produce an independent witness'. Which is not possible. She seems only interested in looking at things that support her narrative that I was in the wrong.
I do wonder if the calls from the police are recorded. They come through as a private number.
I have arranged for a solicitor to attend with me to the Police station which is arranged for the 24th April in the afternoon. I'll be getting the full CCTV if possible before then.
This is just a gut feeling - but given the PC has changed her story once about what was on the CCTV, I feel like she is just trying to put this in a box and sweep it under the carpet. Perhaps the local Police have a good working relationship with the security staff. But she was super keen for me to just sign an apology letter and not go back to the store. She wanted me to say I was wrong and for it to be forgotten about. If she genuinely felt I'd attacked someone I can't see that being the case.
I feel much better today. What is going to happen will happen. I'll do my best and tell the truth. If that isn't enough then I can't change it. Life will go on and I'll still be the same person. Tbh if I'm charged with anything I REALLY hope it's an either way offence or higher. I want this to be heard by a jury of my peers rather than by magistrates who (according to the internet) have less interest in the law than how they are feeling that day.
Monkeylegend said:
Red 4 said:
berlintaxi said:
milkround said:
Got solicitor covered. If it gets more serious will throw some money at a decent one.
Sounds like a great strategy, start with a crap but cheap solicitor then panic when his advice doesn't work out.If he is charged then he will seek out a legal eagle to defend his case at court.
Seems a reasonable strategy to me.
If this was said in jest, then fair play.
I just think some posters have taken cheap shots at the op on this thread and, as an ex Police Officer, I'm not totally convinced that the Police are dealing with this job in the correct manner.
Time will tell I suppose but trying to pressure someone into accepting a caution/ community resolution when, on the face of it, the op has done nothing wrong isn't fair play IMO.
I appreciate we've only got the OP's version of events, 2 sides to a story, etc etc and we really need to see the evidence ... But until then ...
milkround said:
To add even more comedy effect. Can you imagine this coppers face when she thinks she is dealing with a minor assault and I rock up with my folders full of case law, cps guidance, print outs of emails with the cps and other such over the top ness. I'll make sure to give it to the solicitor before I go in so they can't take it off me.
That all being said. It is my life we are talking about here... Whilst it's not the crime of the century I do reckon if she is going to be bold enough to say I'll be going to court she should know the topic inside out and have investigated it properly.
I've seen 24 hours in police custody. I've yet to see someone cite the court of appeal or cps when answering questions. It will wind her up no doubt (just from speaking to her on the phone - she got lairy when I said I'd get my own copy of the cctv saying she knew how to do her job). But as I've said before if it were her accused of a crime she wouldn't be passively accepting it I'm sure.
LOL. You have a shock coming to you when your solicitor says "there's the bin chuck it all in there and say no comment to everything"That all being said. It is my life we are talking about here... Whilst it's not the crime of the century I do reckon if she is going to be bold enough to say I'll be going to court she should know the topic inside out and have investigated it properly.
I've seen 24 hours in police custody. I've yet to see someone cite the court of appeal or cps when answering questions. It will wind her up no doubt (just from speaking to her on the phone - she got lairy when I said I'd get my own copy of the cctv saying she knew how to do her job). But as I've said before if it were her accused of a crime she wouldn't be passively accepting it I'm sure.
The police will have no interest in your determination of the law neither will your solicitor.
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