Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!

Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!

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Discussion

kestral

1,726 posts

206 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
Can you can you actually state some facts about this interview?

Lets have some facts about what your solicitor actually said to you.

Was it tape recorded?

Did you admit you punched or struck the security guard?

Did you state the words which in your opinion were homophobic?

How many police officers were present at this interview?

Were you cautioned before the interview?

Were you arrested or told you were not under arrest and can leave at anytime you chose?

How is it you cannot remember the address you are moving to?

Was there any documentation given to you at anytime by the police?

daytonavrs

774 posts

83 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
Well what an interesting thread, best of luck op

I don't get those automated tils personally, even more than I dislike stores like Tesco.
They can continue to employ til operators so I don't have to deal with this kind of bullst, thanks.

You don't pay me or discount shopping for me to want to serve myself. Cheap st bds

kindai

48 posts

63 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
Milkman will be totally fine if events as per his account of tonights interview are as they say.

Any defense barrister would rip the "evidence" to pieces.

Ructions

4,705 posts

120 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
kindai said:
Any defense barrister would rip the "evidence" to pieces.
If this ‘case’ does proceed, it will most likely do so in the magistrates court, would it be common practise to use a barrister in a magistarates case?

milkround

Original Poster:

1,113 posts

78 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
kestral said:
Can you can you actually state some facts about this interview?

Lets have some facts about what your solicitor actually said to you.

Was it tape recorded?

Did you admit you punched or struck the security guard?

Did you state the words which in your opinion were homophobic?

How many police officers were present at this interview?

Were you cautioned before the interview?

Were you arrested or told you were not under arrest and can leave at anytime you chose?

How is it you cannot remember the address you are moving to?

Was there any documentation given to you at anytime by the police?
The solicitor started off by telling me what the Police had said. Then listened to my version. She said I had a defence of self-defence. And said I'd be best giving that side of the story. She said to give my side of the story and nothing more. At times in the interview, she did tell me firmly I'd said enough.

It was recorded on the officers body worn camera. Which was mounted on some form of tripod.

Yes I admitted that I pushed him after going to the ground. I said I did this because I was scared and he was still coming towards me even after I'd repeatedly tried to withdraw. A big bone of contention for them was if it was a push or a punch. You cannot see at all from the video.

I did say the words used. The officer asked if I was just saying that to get out of trouble. I explained this was ludicrous as if I didn't want to get into trouble I'd have simply written the letter if I felt I was in the wrong. What i couldn't do is say exactly how they were used. When I tried to paraphrase the solicitor stopped me. Sadly i just can't remember word for word what was said.

One Police officer was present.

Yes I was cautioned. I even had to say back in my own words what I thought it meant.

I wasn't arrested. He said I could leave - but if he felt he needed to question me still he could arrest me for a prompt and effective investigation.

I can't remember the address as I've not moved there yet. I've not actually been inside it (partner has). I gave the road name I just don't know the block of flats name. I don't see why this is relevent.

The only documentation given to my be the police was some yellow form beforehand which outlined my rights. It was not overly relevant. It included things like having the embassy called if I was a foreigner. Or having an appropriate adult with me if I was a child etc.

I'm not sure how any of that stuff helps tbh.

milkround

Original Poster:

1,113 posts

78 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
Bigends said:
If hes reported you for the offence you'll either receive a summons to court or be informed of no further action. I doubt this will be until after the security guard has been interviewed as a suspect and theyve got the full story
I'd be willing to bet my left testicle that the guard will never be interviewed (and I only have one testical).

At no point did the Police show the slightest interest in if he was in the wrong or not. And given they did not seem it important to even get a statement from my partner - from the supermarket they have:

-Statement from SG.
-Statement from the 'witness'.
-Copy of the letter of complaint I sent to the supermarket CEO (remember I said she only called me the day they emailed back...).
- Someone has listened to the phone call I made to 101 when I got home that night and compared it to what I said later. Fortunately, my events match.

So they seem to have put a lot of effort into this. I was questioned about the smallest discrepancy between any of these things. There were not really any. He did say when I called I said I'd been grabbed on my arm rather than my wrist. So clearly someone has taken the time to check all those things... But didn't think to speak to the only other person in the footage.

In total, I was interviewed for 1 hour 20 mins. The solicitor said it's nearly unheard off for an interview over such a minor offence to take so long. I don't know if it's because I complained. I don't know if it's because they just don't like me. I don't know why it's turned out like this.

The officer who interviewed me was professional and polite. I cannot fault him. However, he refused to even consider the massive contradictions between the statements he read and the CCTV. He would not get drawn into that.

I shall be looking into paying money to getting the footage digitally enhanced if I'm charged. I am sure it will be ridiculously expensive if it's even possible. But I want a bit of justice here.


elanfan

5,516 posts

226 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
I would say from what you’ve said is the security guard assaulted you by putting his hands on you and trying to put your arm up your back. From there you were in fear and had every right to hit him to keep him off you. The SG must be stting himself as hell likely lose his job if he’s convicted.

richard sails

809 posts

258 months

Thursday 25th April 2019
quotequote all
Ructions said:
kindai said:
Any defence barrister would rip the "evidence" to pieces.
If this ‘case’ does proceed, it will most likely do so in the magistrates court, would it be common practise to use a barrister in a magistrates case?
No a barrister in a Magistrate Court would look silly and be a waste of money. You go there on your own, represent yourself honestly and clearly and hope for a fair hearing, which to be honest you will probably get. If that fails you appeal to crown court, appear before a jury and wheel out the big guns in defence.

Ructions

4,705 posts

120 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
richard sails said:
Ructions said:
kindai said:
Any defence barrister would rip the "evidence" to pieces.
If this ‘case’ does proceed, it will most likely do so in the magistrates court, would it be common practise to use a barrister in a magistrates case?
No a barrister in a Magistrate Court would look silly and be a waste of money. You go there on your own, represent yourself honestly and clearly and hope for a fair hearing, which to be honest you will probably get. If that fails you appeal to crown court, appear before a jury and wheel out the big guns in defence.
No, you take a good local solicitor to the magistrates court, preferably one with a good previous with the RM. (Or have I been out of this game for too long?)


paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
richard sails said:
Ructions said:
kindai said:
Any defence barrister would rip the "evidence" to pieces.
If this ‘case’ does proceed, it will most likely do so in the magistrates court, would it be common practise to use a barrister in a magistrates case?
No a barrister in a Magistrate Court would look silly and be a waste of money. You go there on your own, represent yourself honestly and clearly and hope for a fair hearing, which to be honest you will probably get. If that fails you appeal to crown court, appear before a jury and wheel out the big guns in defence.
Speak to your solicitor once you've been told what's happening & follow her advice as to your next steps if it's a court appearance.
Do not go to court on your own.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
richard sails said:
Ructions said:
kindai said:
Any defence barrister would rip the "evidence" to pieces.
If this ‘case’ does proceed, it will most likely do so in the magistrates court, would it be common practise to use a barrister in a magistrates case?
No a barrister in a Magistrate Court would look silly and be a waste of money. You go there on your own, represent yourself honestly and clearly and hope for a fair hearing, which to be honest you will probably get. If that fails you appeal to crown court, appear before a jury and wheel out the big guns in defence.
The brilliant advice keeps on rolling in.

Never heard, "He who represents himself has a fool for a client"?

Secondly, an appeal to the crown court has no jury.

milkround said:
The officer who interviewed me was professional and polite. I cannot fault him. However, he refused to even consider the massive contradictions between the statements he read and the CCTV. He would not get drawn into that.
That's not the purpose of an interview / his role. His job is to present the evidence (regardless of what it is) to you and gather your account.

The evidential strengths / weaknesses / contradictions etc are to be assessed after.

Did you raise self-defence?



elanfan

5,516 posts

226 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
When they picked you up on being grabbed by the wrist/arm... your wrist is part of your arm and can correctly called as such.


My money is still on the SG losing his job/SIA badge. Over reaching his mandate too. I’ve spoken to SGs at Sainsbury’s and they tell me they aren’t even allowed to touch customers let alone attempt to restrain them by assaulting them.

Zoobeef

6,004 posts

157 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
I don't see what the difference in a push or a punch is with regards to self defense. You can do either. Not sure why they are fixed on that bit aslong as you stick to the self defence part. Looks good that you were continually retreating.

AlexRS2782

8,025 posts

212 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
milkround said:
I shall be looking into paying money to getting the footage digitally enhanced if I'm charged. I am sure it will be ridiculously expensive if it's even possible. But I want a bit of justice here.


getmecoat

killerferret666

461 posts

187 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
I don't know if this has been said but where was the shove / punch on the body?
Generally (and i do mean generally) people don't shove someone's face for instance.

Good luck with it all. All this for not showing a receipt...crazy.

I was once told by a policeman when i was younger. 'There is 3 versions of events, yours, theirs and the truth, its my job to find out the 3rd'

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

116 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
killerferret666 said:
I was once told by a policeman when i was younger. 'There is 3 versions of events, yours, theirs and the truth, its my job to find out the 3rd'
I do enjoy a nice cliche.

Got any more?

Lemming Train

5,567 posts

71 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
milkround said:
The Mad Monk said:
Where did the "pan" come from? What sort of "pan"?
We brought it from the shop.
Ah now it all becomes clear! No wonder the security guard stopped you and they're doing you for theft - and quite right too imo! If you'd bought it before you tried to walk out with it then none of this would have happened. You cannot just bring things out of shops without paying for them. nono

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
Lemming Train said:
milkround said:
The Mad Monk said:
Where did the "pan" come from? What sort of "pan"?
We brought it from the shop.
Ah now it all becomes clear! No wonder the security guard stopped you and they're doing you for theft - and quite right too imo! If you'd bought it before you tried to walk out with it then none of this would have happened. You cannot just bring things out of shops without paying for them. nono
hehe ooh, you’re sharp in the morning!

vonhosen

40,201 posts

216 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
killerferret666 said:
All this for not showing a receipt...crazy.
It's not just that though is it?
That bit is not an offence or unreasonable in the circumstances.

Hol

8,360 posts

199 months

Friday 26th April 2019
quotequote all
elanfan said:
When they picked you up on being grabbed by the wrist/arm... your wrist is part of your arm and can correctly called as such.


My money is still on the SG losing his job/SIA badge. Over reaching his mandate too. I’ve spoken to SGs at Sainsbury’s and they tell me they aren’t even allowed to touch customers let alone attempt to restrain them by assaulting them.
You seem to have the hots for the security guard?