B road hooning, technically illegal?
Discussion
1. Can you come to a stop within the distance you can see ahead or round a corner?
2. Can your car reliably stay on its side of the road at the speed you're planning on taking the corner, given the road conditions?
3. Can you resist the urge to aggressively tailgate people who are unable/unwilling to 'press on' who you then consider to be 'in your way'?
2. Can your car reliably stay on its side of the road at the speed you're planning on taking the corner, given the road conditions?
3. Can you resist the urge to aggressively tailgate people who are unable/unwilling to 'press on' who you then consider to be 'in your way'?
Edited by Ron99 on Sunday 21st April 13:07
See the definition for driving without due care and attention
1. Driving that falls below the standard expected of a competent driver; or
2. Driving that does not show reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or pathways.
That should cover it. It is a subjective definition, but you'd be on shaky ground if you were driving on the edge of grip/adhesion or using excessive speed for the conditions, especially if you then had an accident. Country roads are great fun to drive on, but you do need to keep your wits about you.
I hate to say it, but as a biker I feel a lot of other riders, especially on ride outs where they're in a group are simply asking to be killed or seriously injured (not to mention damage to third parties) because they're hell bent of passing slower traffic in order to keep up with the group. I had two riders overtake me on a blind bend yesterday on a B road, whilst I was in my Land Rover.
1. Driving that falls below the standard expected of a competent driver; or
2. Driving that does not show reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or pathways.
That should cover it. It is a subjective definition, but you'd be on shaky ground if you were driving on the edge of grip/adhesion or using excessive speed for the conditions, especially if you then had an accident. Country roads are great fun to drive on, but you do need to keep your wits about you.
I hate to say it, but as a biker I feel a lot of other riders, especially on ride outs where they're in a group are simply asking to be killed or seriously injured (not to mention damage to third parties) because they're hell bent of passing slower traffic in order to keep up with the group. I had two riders overtake me on a blind bend yesterday on a B road, whilst I was in my Land Rover.
warch said:
I hate to say it, but as a biker I feel a lot of other riders, especially on ride outs where they're in a group are simply asking to be killed or seriously injured (not to mention damage to third parties) because they're hell bent of passing slower traffic in order to keep up with the group. I had two riders overtake me on a blind bend yesterday on a B road, whilst I was in my Land Rover.
I was going to say that it's pretty much guaranteed that at least one biker will die in similar circumstances over the Easter weekend but a quick Google suggests one already has...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48003565
JonDerz said:
Thanks for the reply and very good questions, I’d assume if you can pass all 3 you’re good and if you fail 1 you’re not.
I like a B-road drive. I do probably 10-15k of recreational B-road driving in a year. Sometimes I'm dawdling and enjoying the countryside if nobody is about to hold up, sometimes I'm pressing on at 9/10ths and I try to stick to all the above.
On a few occasions I've had police cars follow me while driving 'keenly' (but sticking to my rules above and not more than a few mph over the limit) and I've never been pulled over.
They do briefly come up close behind, probably to read my reg plate for their database checks, and then drop back.
In fact, I think the police driver(s) might even have enjoyed the 'chase'.
At the moment I'm looking for a replacement for my Swift Sport.
Ron99 said:
I like a B-road drive. I do probably 10-15k of recreational B-road driving in a year.
Sometimes I'm dawdling and enjoying the countryside if nobody is about to hold up, sometimes I'm pressing on at 9/10ths and I try to stick to all the above.
On a few occasions I've had police cars follow me while driving 'keenly' (but sticking to my rules above and not more than a few mph over the limit) and I've never been pulled over.
They do briefly come up close behind, probably to read my reg plate for their database checks, and then drop back.
In fact, I think the police driver(s) might even have enjoyed the 'chase'.
At the moment I'm looking for a replacement for my Swift Sport.
This is the kind of driving I have a problem with.Sometimes I'm dawdling and enjoying the countryside if nobody is about to hold up, sometimes I'm pressing on at 9/10ths and I try to stick to all the above.
On a few occasions I've had police cars follow me while driving 'keenly' (but sticking to my rules above and not more than a few mph over the limit) and I've never been pulled over.
They do briefly come up close behind, probably to read my reg plate for their database checks, and then drop back.
In fact, I think the police driver(s) might even have enjoyed the 'chase'.
At the moment I'm looking for a replacement for my Swift Sport.
JonDerz said:
A lot of drivers that aren’t familiar with country roads or have a lack of confidence drive like miss daisy and anything faster than what they’re doing they could suggest it falls below the standards of a competent driver..in their opinion.
Some cars just aren't 'sporty' and are at a disadvantage in traction, stability and braking on minor roads. However, they still provide perfectly good transport for their owners when driven within their sensible limitations.A fair few cars are also relatively low-powered and with B-roads often being hilly or requiring frequent deceleration for bends, their owners don't want to have to keep redlining them up every hill or after every bend just to add an extra 10mph of speed to please the tailgater behind.
When it's damp, or might be mud, or wet leaves, on a B-road bend, non-sporty cars are best driven very conservatively.
A lot of the people on here, with their powerful and sporty cars, don't always appreciate how it is for other drivers who just have the cheapest possible car to get them from A to B and back again. Many of the people on here wouldn't be able to cope with a low-powered, non-sporty car.
Dr Jekyll said:
<dawdling >
This is the kind of driving I have a problem with.
Weren't convertibles designed for dawdling through countryside?This is the kind of driving I have a problem with.
If there's nobody to hold up, there's no problem dawdling.
If someone is dawdling and 'holding you up', if you're a skilled driver it shouldn't be long before you can get past......only to be held up by another dawdler, tractor, bicycle or horse.
Should those other 'dawdlers' get off the road, too? In many cases the horse rider or the cyclist will be 'recreational' just the same as someone in a car taking in the scenery - and a horse or bike will be much slower than the dawdler in the car.
Over the years I've experimented with the speed on roads in my area and, in general, trying to press on at the speed limit soon ends up finding a queue in front. Most single-carriageway roads average about 10mph less than their posted limit. Trying to go faster just gets stressful because it won't be more than a few minutes before the next cluster of vehicles 'hold you up'.
Edited by Ron99 on Sunday 21st April 14:11
JonDerz said:
Alucidnation said:
I’m sure 10ps was doing similar when it all went wrong.
In regards to B road hooning? Care to share the story as I’m not familiar with the member. 
Ron99 said:
Some cars just aren't 'sporty' and are at a disadvantage in traction, stability and braking on minor roads. However, they still provide perfectly good transport for their owners when driven within their sensible limitations.
A fair few cars are also relatively low-powered and with B-roads often being hilly or requiring frequent deceleration for bends, their owners don't want to have to keep redlining them up every hill or after every bend just to add an extra 10mph of speed to please the tailgater behind.
When it's damp, or might be mud, or wet leaves, on a B-road bend, non-sporty cars are best driven very conservatively.
A lot of the people on here, with their powerful and sporty cars, don't always appreciate how it is for other drivers who just have the cheapest possible car to get them from A to B and back again. Many of the people on here wouldn't be able to cope with a low-powered, non-sporty car.
Yes, but I’m not referring to wet or poor weather conditions as it wouldn’t be conditions I would choose to “hoon” in anyway. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear before. Dry and warm conditions only so no risk of ice or below 7 where summer tyres are performing less.A fair few cars are also relatively low-powered and with B-roads often being hilly or requiring frequent deceleration for bends, their owners don't want to have to keep redlining them up every hill or after every bend just to add an extra 10mph of speed to please the tailgater behind.
When it's damp, or might be mud, or wet leaves, on a B-road bend, non-sporty cars are best driven very conservatively.
A lot of the people on here, with their powerful and sporty cars, don't always appreciate how it is for other drivers who just have the cheapest possible car to get them from A to B and back again. Many of the people on here wouldn't be able to cope with a low-powered, non-sporty car.
The low powered car argument is valid but I’m also referring to cars quite capable of getting up hills and not requiring redlining. A typical 320d is more than capable of this and to be honest, most modern cars are. Just to be clear I’m not talking about every driver going round bends at 60 on a B road, but a lot of bends don’t require braking in the bend at 30.
You can see this on your average single carriageway A road all the time. People slamming on the anchors for corners and braking when cars pass coming the opposite way on straight pieces of road. Is that the car’s ability? No, that’s unfamiliarity and/or lack of confidence.
I agree with your point about dawdling on country roads if there’s no other road users. Not sure why that would be an issue.
Edited by JonDerz on Sunday 21st April 14:17
Dr Jekyll said:
He lost control going into a B road bend too fast after an overtake, ended up blocking the road and a motorcyclist coming the other way was seriously injured. 10ps was charged with dangerous driving with the prosecution presenting not just the loss of control as evidence but also the testimony of the driver overtaken 'driving like a lunatic engine screaming etc etc' and some social media posts 10ps had made previously that could be interpreted as declaring an intention to drive recklessly. 10ps pleaded guilty and got prison time. He put his account of events on here, it's well worth reading and he did want other people to learn from it, though he did end up getting a bit sanctimonious and seems to have disappeared from PH.
Thanks for sharing, I will see if I can dig anything up from a search.EDIT: I found his prison diary thread but his post has been deleted, I’m guessing that’s the thread you’re referring to?
Edited by JonDerz on Sunday 21st April 14:36
Dr Jekyll said:
Ron99 said:
I like a B-road drive. Sometimes I'm dawdling and enjoying the countryside if nobody is about to hold up, .
This is the kind of driving I have a problem with.However, I have a few rules of my own;
If a tradie in a van/truck is behind me I always pull over to allow them to overtake. They've got a living to make.
If a bikey is behind me I always pull to the left and flash my left indicator when it's safe for them to overtake (is this legal by the way?)
If it is rush-hour I always keep up with traffic, people have work to get to or want to get home after a long day.
If a sales rep in a BMW is behind me I always go slower
ValleyRed said:
When I was working I used to enjoy a blast on a B-road. Now I've retired I quite like dawdling and enjoying the countryside.
However, I have a few rules of my own;
If a tradie in a van/truck is behind me I always pull over to allow them to overtake. They've got a living to make.
If a bikey is behind me I always pull to the left and flash my left indicator when it's safe for them to overtake (is this legal by the way?)
If it is rush-hour I always keep up with traffic, people have work to get to or want to get home after a long day.
If a sales rep in a BMW is behind me I always go slower
Why can't you enjoy the countryside while keeping up with the traffic? However, I have a few rules of my own;
If a tradie in a van/truck is behind me I always pull over to allow them to overtake. They've got a living to make.
If a bikey is behind me I always pull to the left and flash my left indicator when it's safe for them to overtake (is this legal by the way?)
If it is rush-hour I always keep up with traffic, people have work to get to or want to get home after a long day.
If a sales rep in a BMW is behind me I always go slower
GetCarter said:
O/P... stop doing that and get on some track days. Drive as fast as you like and you'll find your skill limits.
Ive done a fair few on sprint tracks. Just to be clear I’m not talking about driving like a lunatic on B roads, simply spirited driving and what actually constitutes safe spirited and not safe spirited in a legal manner which I felt the 2nd post’s 3 question rule as it were, summed it up very well. Because you’d expect a lot of people on B road hoons fall foul of at least 1 of those 3. I think one of the key elements with spirited driving is how enjoyable a car is at lower speeds and a sense of occasion. I got rid of my old 420 bhp s3 because I felt it was too fast to enjoy on the road and boring to be honest (not exactly renowned for their chassis experience).
heebeegeetee said:
I would argue that if you’re within speed limits then you’re not hooning at all. Hooning involves knocking the speed limits into next week, and it’s not technically illegal, it’s completely illegal. 
Depends what you are “hooning” in. Ferrari or 1L Nissan Micra.I would imagine both could feel quite a thrill on the right B road. One on making pace and the other on the pacemaker.
heebeegeetee said:
I would argue that if you’re within speed limits then you’re not hooning at all. Hooning involves knocking the speed limits into next week, and it’s not technically illegal, it’s completely illegal.
If you get anywhere near the speed limit on the road where I live, you are not just hooning, you're suicidal.I'm up on Exmoor and what can be a fun hoon can go downhill very quickly .
It can be fine then you go into a corner only to find a cyclist or a group mid way around the corner so the variation in speed is massive , if somethings on the other side of the road then it's even worse because you have to brake not overtake .
However , it's a road , i don't own it and they have as much right to be on it as anyone else .
Some people seem to think the sole fact there on a 'hoon' everyone else should vacate the road , if that's what you want then go out the early hours of the morning ie pre 6am .
It can be fine then you go into a corner only to find a cyclist or a group mid way around the corner so the variation in speed is massive , if somethings on the other side of the road then it's even worse because you have to brake not overtake .
However , it's a road , i don't own it and they have as much right to be on it as anyone else .
Some people seem to think the sole fact there on a 'hoon' everyone else should vacate the road , if that's what you want then go out the early hours of the morning ie pre 6am .
My dads just been done for such thing. Came out of a junction, national speed limit. Floored it to get up to speed of the approaching cars, 1st, 2nd and none in 3rd. Didnt break speed limit just maybe 3secs of a burst, looked behind to see blue lights. 1 ticket for driving without reasonable consideration for others for you sir
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