B road hooning, technically illegal?

[vonhosen]

JonDerz said:

Riley Blue said:

No, it's your turn.

Lol well I think it’s important to point out we’re talking about roads with a vast amount of familiarity. As unfamiliar roads are a different matter and I would completely agree with your point, although I wouldn’t want to hoon on an unfamiliar road in the day personally. I also make the assumption you believe hooning in the day is more appropriate rather than the belief than any form of spirited driving at all.

So based on those assumptions, I disagree . I’ve spent the majority of the last 12 years driving B roads and country roads (ex lived out in the sticks) so my opinion is based upon that experience and the opinions of people I know that live in the rural locations I drive.

Spirited driving in the day presents a whole host of hazards. Vast amount more cars, walkers, cyclists, horses, tractors etc. At night, those potentials are drastically reduced. A lot less traffic, I haven’t ever come across a tractor at night or horse riders. I can count the number of people walking at night on one hand. All have been in 30 or 40 limited residential areas going to/from the pub. I have never come across a cyclist on these roads at night. I have come across numerous unlit cyclists on the road on urban roads. You could argue animals but the only ones I’ve came across that would cause an issue is baby deer running across the road and that was once so very unlikely. At night you can see headlights lighting up the road etc before you enter the corners. Of all the petrolheads I know (and the rural ones), all go for spirited drives at night, not in the day.

Perhaps it’s different where you are I’m not sure .

Familiarity breeds contempt. Accidents are more likely to happen on familiar roads rather than unfamiliar roads, in no small measure because people think what's usually there 'a known past' as opposed to what might be there today 'an unknown present'.

ie I know that bend is going to start opening up now so starting dialling in throttle, Oh there's a broken down vehicle.

[Dr Jekyll]

vonhosen said:

Familiarity breeds contempt. Accidents are more likely to happen on familiar roads rather than unfamiliar roads, in no small measure because people think what's usually there 'a known past' as opposed to what might be there today 'an unknown present'.

ie I know that bend is going to start opening up now so starting dialling in throttle, Oh there's a broken down vehicle.

+1

Treating a road like a track.

[JonDerz]

vonhosen said:

Familiarity breeds contempt. Accidents are more likely to happen on familiar roads rather than unfamiliar roads, in no small measure because people think what's usually there 'past' as opposed to what might be there today 'present'.

ie I know that bend is going to start opening up now so starting dialling in throttle, Oh there's a broken down vehicle.

If we’re still talking about time of day its irrelevant in that scenario, as it would be the case in either night or day. In fact you could argue it’s worse in the day as if they have hazard lights on there’s a chance you could see a reflection of them flashing in the dark. I agree familiarity CAN breed a false sense of security, however if we’re arguing that we could say none of us should drive as we become complacent every time we get in the car just popping to the shops and no one should ever take their car for a spirited drive.

Again, in regards to my definition of hooning, I’m not talking about flooring the throttle at 60 round blind corners.

[JonDerz]

Dr Jekyll said:

+1

Treating a road like a track.

That’s not the style of driving I’m suggesting. What is your definition of a hoon?

[vonhosen]

JonDerz said:

vonhosen said:

Familiarity breeds contempt. Accidents are more likely to happen on familiar roads rather than unfamiliar roads, in no small measure because people think what's usually there 'past' as opposed to what might be there today 'present'.

ie I know that bend is going to start opening up now so starting dialling in throttle, Oh there's a broken down vehicle.

If we’re still talking about time of day its irrelevant in that scenario, as it would be the case in either night or day. In fact you could argue it’s worse in the day as if they have hazard lights on there’s a chance you could see a reflection of them flashing in the dark. I agree familiarity CAN breed a false sense of security, however if we’re arguing that we could say none of us should drive as we become complacent every time we get in the car just popping to the shops and no one should ever take their car for a spirited drive.

Again, in regards to my definition of hooning, I’m not talking about flooring the throttle at 60 round blind corners.

You use the word hoon though & different people will picture different things. It doesn't have a universal meaning.

[johnwilliams77]

JonDerz said:

That’s not the style of driving I’m suggesting. What is your definition of a hoon?

For me it's just about driving a little bit more briskly, where safe to do so ill push to speeds within the 3 point zone.

[Red Devil]

vonhosen said:

JonDerz said:

Dr Jekyll said:

He lost control going into a B road bend too fast after an overtake, ended up blocking the road and a motorcyclist coming the other way was seriously injured. 10ps was charged with dangerous driving with the prosecution presenting not just the loss of control as evidence but also the testimony of the driver overtaken 'driving like a lunatic engine screaming etc etc' and some social media posts 10ps had made previously that could be interpreted as declaring an intention to drive recklessly. 10ps pleaded guilty and got prison time. He put his account of events on here, it's well worth reading and he did want other people to learn from it, though he did end up getting a bit sanctimonious and seems to have disappeared from PH.

Thanks for sharing, I will see if I can dig anything up from a search.

EDIT: I found his prison diary thread but his post has been deleted, I’m guessing that’s the thread you’re referring to?

Edited by JonDerz on Sunday 21st April 14:36

http://dansprisondiary.blogspot.com

I think it may have been the trauma of what happened which caused him to incorrectly describe it as a B road.
The incident took place on a very well known driving road: the A686, Hartside Pass.
https://www.cwherald.com/a/archive/car-driver-jail...

[JonDerz]

vonhosen said:

You use the word hoon though & different people will picture different things. It doesn't have a universal meaning.

Yet most people seem to be picturing in just one way as though it does

I’ve tried to use the word spirited driving to see if that helps to describe what a hoon is to me.

For me, a hoon is driving for pleasure,

- within the speed limit.
- in conditions that are appropriate.
- not overtaking every person you come across that is driving slower (I usually pull over in the next village for 5 mins to create some space; benefits of night driving) or overtake when it’s safe to do so which is rare on the roads I frequent, easier to just pull off onto another road.
- Carrying speed through corners that are not blind.

I think that’s it unless anyone has any further questions about the definition? lol

[vonhosen]

JonDerz said:

vonhosen said:

You use the word hoon though & different people will picture different things. It doesn't have a universal meaning.

Yet most people seem to be picturing in just one way as though it does

I’ve tried to use the word spirited driving to see if that helps to describe what a hoon is to me.

For me, a hoon is driving for pleasure,

- within the speed limit.
- in conditions that are appropriate.
- not overtaking every person you come across that is driving slower (I usually pull over in the next village for 5 mins to create some space; benefits of night driving) or overtake when it’s safe to do so which is rare on the roads I frequent, easier to just pull off onto another road.
- Carrying speed through corners that are not blind.

I think that’s it unless anyone has any further questions about the definition? lol

Yeah but that's not hooning in my book
That's not spirited driving either.

[JonDerz]

vonhosen said:

Yeah but that's not hooning my book
That's not spirited driving either.

Then what is yours?

[johnwilliams77]

vonhosen said:

Yeah but that's not hooning in my book
That's not spirited driving either.

Yep. Sounds like someone out on their IAM test.

[Ron99]

ValleyRed said:

However, I have a few rules of my own;
If a tradie in a van/truck is behind me I always pull over to allow them to overtake. They've got a living to make.
If a bikey is behind me I always pull to the left and flash my left indicator when it's safe for them to overtake (is this legal by the way?)
If it is rush-hour I always keep up with traffic, people have work to get to or want to get home after a long day.
If a sales rep in a BMW is behind me I always go slower

Yes, I generally stick to a similar set of rules.

[vonhosen]

JonDerz said:

vonhosen said:

Yeah but that's not hooning my book
That's not spirited driving either.

Then what is yours?

For me the difference between hooning & spirited driving is that hooning is a journey made merely for no other reason than fun that involved spirited driving. Spirited driving would involve exceeding speed limits.

Carrying speed through bends doesn't really mean anything in terms of spirited driving. Every bend you are moving around involves carrying speed. You are though either driving within the limit points or exceeding them. Spirited driving doesn't mean exceeding limit points, that's careless/dangerous driving. Whilst spirited driving will involve exceeding speed limits it wouldn't objectively involve dangerous driving, that's dangerous driving not spirited driving.

[JonDerz]

vonhosen said:

For me the difference between hooning & spirited driving is that hooning is a journey made merely for no other reason than fun that involved spirited driving. Spirited driving would involve exceeding speed limits.

Carrying speed through bends doesn't really mean anything in terms of spirited driving. Every bend you are moving around involves carrying speed. You are though either driving within the limit points or exceeding them. Spirited driving doesn't mean exceeding limit points, that's careless/dangerous driving. Whilst spirited driving will involve exceeding speed limits it wouldn't objectively involve dangerous driving, that's dangerous driving not spirited driving.

You mention that hooning involves spirited driving but state spirited driving involves exceeding speed limits. Why does spirited driving have to involved exceeding speed limits? Is going round bends at 60 not spirited enough? You also mention spirited driving doesn’t involve exceeding limit points, however I don’t know about your B roads but the ones near me would exceed limit points if you take excess speed into the corners.

Of course you do all this on unfamiliar roads as driving in that manner on familiar roads would lead to complacency and then you might come across a broken down vehicle correct?

Or is this where you tell me you don’t do hooning or spirited driving and it’s merely a definition? Lol

[johnwilliams77]

Oh good grief.....

[Superleg48]

Ron99 said:

1. Can you come to a stop within the distance you can see ahead or round a corner?

2. Can your car reliably stay on its side of the road at the speed you're planning on taking the corner, given the road conditions?

3. Can you resist the urge to aggressively tailgate people who are unable/unwilling to 'press on' who you then consider to be 'in your way'?

Edited by Ron99 on Sunday 21st April 13:07

OP, as I think you have appreciated, this is the only relevant and concise reply to the questions you posed at the outset.

Everything else for the last three pages is a combination of subjective arguments, ramblings of superior minded driving “experts” and waffle, in particular the over analysis of the word “hoon” and how that differs to “spirited driving”! Just saying.

Enjoy your drives.

[SD_1]

heebeegeetee said:

I would argue that if you’re within speed limits then you’re not hooning at all.

Depends where you are, here in Scotland there are plenty of NSL roads where 60mph is simply not possible by anyone with a hint of sense.

I stick to the rule of "only drive as fast as you can see". Sadly there are plenty of aholes who don't abide by that and ruin it for everyone.

[vonhosen]

JonDerz said:

vonhosen said:

For me the difference between hooning & spirited driving is that hooning is a journey made merely for no other reason than fun that involved spirited driving. Spirited driving would involve exceeding speed limits.

Carrying speed through bends doesn't really mean anything in terms of spirited driving. Every bend you are moving around involves carrying speed. You are though either driving within the limit points or exceeding them. Spirited driving doesn't mean exceeding limit points, that's careless/dangerous driving. Whilst spirited driving will involve exceeding speed limits it wouldn't objectively involve dangerous driving, that's dangerous driving not spirited driving.

You mention that hooning involves spirited driving but state spirited driving involves exceeding speed limits. Why does spirited driving have to involved exceeding speed limits? Is going round bends at 60 not spirited enough? You also mention spirited driving doesn’t involve exceeding limit points, however I don’t know about your B roads but the ones near me would exceed limit points if you take excess speed into the corners.

You asked me what hooning meant to me & I told you.

Going around a corner at 60 doesn't make it spirited if it was possible to do 100+ safely through that corner, just because the speed limit was 60.
The limit point (In the absence of other hazards) dictates what speed it is safe to travel at through a corner. In spirited driving you'd be approaching (but within) the maximum safe speeds irrespective of the speed limit.

Driving around always within the speed limits & always being able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear (& reasonably expect to remain so) on your side of the road, is..................well, just driving. Be it for fun or any other reason.

JonDerz said:

Of course you do all this on unfamiliar roads as driving in that manner on familiar roads would lead to complacency and then you might come across a broken down vehicle correct?

Or is this where you tell me you don’t do hooning or spirited driving and it’s merely a definition? Lol

Nope, because familiar or not you should always be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear (& reasonably expect to remain so) on your side of the road, hooning or otherwise. If you can't that's not hooning or spirited driving, it's careless or dangerous driving.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 21st April 21:59

[JonDerz]

vonhosen said:

Driving around always within the speed limits & always being able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear (& reasonably expect to remain so) on your side of the road, is..................well, just driving. Be it for fun or any other reason.

I did ask what hooning meant to you and asked questions for some further reasoning, don’t see any problem there?

The part quoted would suggest that all forms of hooning, spirited driving or whatever you want to call it is illegal then if that were the case.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on our definitions

[JonDerz]

SD_1 said:

heebeegeetee said:

I would argue that if you’re within speed limits then you’re not hooning at all.

Depends where you are, here in Scotland there are plenty of NSL roads where 60mph is simply not possible by anyone with a hint of sense.

I stick to the rule of "only drive as fast as you can see". Sadly there are plenty of aholes who don't abide by that and ruin it for everyone.

This is also true of many roads round here