Parking fine assistance (yay!)

Parking fine assistance (yay!)

Author
Discussion

xjay1337

Original Poster:

15,966 posts

117 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
Honestly mate, if you're going through other stuff that should take priority, just pay the £50, get it fked off and get on with life.

It's honestly what I would do if I had other st to worry about, don't let your principles cause you more headaches than it's actually worth IMO.
I'm sure it's lost on the many company directors on this page, but one of those issues is an upcoming trip to SA that I've failed to budget for, so the £50 would be much better put in the fund for that rather than causing me even more stress and more arguments with the Mrs.

If I have to, then I will just pay the £50 but if I can avoid it for the sake for a few hours and a couple of E-mails then job done.

Anyway a copy of the letter here is here if anyone is interested. Someone mentioned about a paragraph 9 (2) (e) not being present but I'm none the wiser.


Monkeylegend

26,227 posts

230 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
The other, from an office in Liverpool. Obvious scam , typical PPC crap, my work just said don't waste time arguing it and we just billed it to the customer.
Bill the customer for your mistake then.

xjay1337

Original Poster:

15,966 posts

117 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Yes you were the one that stole 30 mins parking without payment.
What's the view like from way up there?

I'm asking for assistance , if you're just wanting to post to increase your post count without actually helping the situation then maybe just close the page and go to another thread.

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
Sounds stupid but one of those issues is an upcoming trip to SA that I've failed to budget for so the £50 would be much better put in the fund for that rather than causing me even more stress and more arguments with the Mrs.

If I have to, then I will just pay the £50 but if I can avoid it for the sake for a few hours and a couple of E-mails then job done.

Anyway a copy of the letter here is here if anyone is interested. Someone mentioned about a paragraph 9 (2) (e) not being present but I'm none the wiser.

Isn't that 2h 45m?

You paid for 2h yes?

Edited by Stay in Bed Instead on Friday 14th June 09:11

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
What's the view like from way up there?

I'm asking for assistance , if you're just wanting to post to increase your post count without actually helping the situation then maybe just close the page and go to another thread.
What makes you think you deserve assistance?

Are alternative views not permitted in your world?

What steps did you take to pay the balance parking charge when you realised you had accidentally over stayed?

xjay1337

Original Poster:

15,966 posts

117 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Ticket was bought at 12:35 as I got a bit confused as to where I was walking and sent a couple of E-mails in the car.

Stay in Bed Instead said:
What makes you think you deserve assistance?

Are alternative views not permitted in your world?

What steps did you take to pay the balance parking charge when you realised you had accidentally over stayed?
If you don't feel I am deserving of assistance then we have no further need to engage in discussion in this thread..
As I said a genuine mistake to losing track of time. Didn't even realise I was more than 2 hours, wasn't on my mind until the letter came through the door.

£50 may not be a lot to you. It is to some others.

Edited by xjay1337 on Friday 14th June 09:15

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
Ticket was bought at 12:35 as I got a bit confused as to where I was walking and sent a couple of E-mails in the car.
laugh

silverfoxcc

7,683 posts

144 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
OP

The letter fails POFA by not 'inviting' the RK to name the driver.
A small point BUT is is laid down in law what the letter can and cannot say. And that is one part
YOu wshould get a win at POPLA but if you don't want to have a quick check with pepipoo.com use this template

AND read POFA 2012 it is VERY particular on how the PPC should act. IF they don't then they are fair game to tell them to get stuffed!!

Send this to the PPC as the Registered keeper and DO NOT changed one word

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely that you have failed to give the invitation prescribed by 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


They will either cancelled or send you a POPLA code where you should win ( pepipoo will confirm). if they do not cancel it will cost them 27.00 to send you the code

Edited by silverfoxcc on Friday 14th June 09:23

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
silverfoxcc said:
OP

The letter fails POFA by not 'inviting' the RK to name the driver.
A small point BUT is is laid down in law what the letter can and cannot say. And that is one part
YOu wshould get a win at POPLA but if you don't want to have a quick check with pepipoo.com use this template

AND read POFA 2012 it is VERY particular on how the PPC should act. IF they don't then they are fair game to tell them to get stuffed!!

Send this to the PPC as the Registered keeper and DO NOT changed one word

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You have also failed to give the invitation prescribed by 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc
In your eagerness to find an excuse not to pay you apparently failed to read the page of the letter posted.

super7

1,922 posts

207 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Couple of things here stand out to me....

1) After so long, why do the likes of ECP still send out letters that fail the requirements to invoice someone for an excessive stay? Seems incredibly stupid and if I owned ECP I would object to my team sending letters out that quite simply fail because ultimately they are costing the business money.....????

2) Secondly, OP, Why in the fk do you think that because you don't agree with the rules of the car park, and the excess parking charge, you are entitled to worm yourself out of paying. For all you know, the pub might have been rammed with paying punters whilst you were fixing someones phone off premises, and the pub could have lost out on trade because your car prevented a 'potential' paying customer from being able to park. I appreciate the car park might have been empty, but either way ECP car parks don't have time or the presence to judge that and why should they.

3) Thirdly, what pub charges customers to park their cars in a car park so that they can spend more money inside. Any pub that charges for parking deserves to fail.

4) Finally, a couple of things is not 4 things...

OP... you come across as a privileged knob who seems to think they can pick and choose when to follow the rules?


silverfoxcc

7,683 posts

144 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Stay in Bed

I have what is your point?

They have not used the word 'INVITE' They have to, it says so in that paragraph they quote.

pavarotti1980

4,837 posts

83 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
super7 said:
OP... you come across as a privileged knob who seems to think they can pick and choose when to follow the rules?
I guess its the same mantra that the parking company follows too when it comes to rules (or legislation in their instance).

So in essence they cancel each other out wink

sim72

4,945 posts

133 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Sheer greed on the part of PPC. If they only charged £10 per breach no-one would even bother appealing
Yeah, this. In the town where I work council parking fines are (or at least were a year or so ago) only £25 rising to £50 if not paid. Talking to someone who works at the council there, something like 90% of people just pay up.

xjay1337

Original Poster:

15,966 posts

117 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Thanks, I guess. I've been called worse :-)

Parking was paid for, and in the heat of the moment forget the time. Honest mistake.
If parking had not been paid for, then fair enough.
If car park was full, then fair enough, if was empty. If it was a reasonable charge then fair enough. (as I said I paid £30 before without question).

Knob or not if a fine can be avoided then I would much rather donate some money to the air ambulance than into the pockets of the PPC if can be avoided.

xjay1337

Original Poster:

15,966 posts

117 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
silverfoxcc said:
OP

The letter fails POFA by not 'inviting' the RK to name the driver.
A small point BUT is is laid down in law what the letter can and cannot say. And that is one part
YOu wshould get a win at POPLA but if you don't want to have a quick check with pepipoo.com use this template

AND read POFA 2012 it is VERY particular on how the PPC should act. IF they don't then they are fair game to tell them to get stuffed!!

Send this to the PPC as the Registered keeper and DO NOT changed one word

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely that you have failed to give the invitation prescribed by 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


They will either cancelled or send you a POPLA code where you should win ( pepipoo will confirm). if they do not cancel it will cost them 27.00 to send you the code

Edited by silverfoxcc on Friday 14th June 09:23
Hi silverfox,

thank you very much for the information this is the sort of help I was looking for

cheers - i will verify on pepipoo as i have a thread on there

silverfoxcc

7,683 posts

144 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Pav

I am keeping a list of all the sanctimonious and self centre holier-than- thou people who post on here saying pay it

What gives you the right etc etc

So when they get shafted for an unsolicited invoice asking htem to pay 100.00 for
Parking on awhite line
Over staying for a few minutes
and other spurious small print exemptions


I shall just post and say PAY UP


( Only joking)

I ,for my sins overstayed by 2hrs in a car park operated by Britannia Parking

The letter was not delivered within the 14 days specified under POFA

Did not invite me to say who was driving

Did not invoke keeper liabilty

So i sent that template off

Got a letter back telling me 'not to do it again'!!



Nearly three weeks ago, a revist ews made to the same car park within the 90 mins specified

Still waiting a letter ( over 14 days) and no doubt their template will still say 'should' and not invite

BUT in this instance ,what if it were a different driver of the revisiting car. Do they claim the car is liable?

And as both drivers did not return within the 90mins specified on what grounds are they going to chase it up?

I will say that i do park according to the rules and pay up when they have got their ducks in a row

If they cannot be arsed to do it according to law then stuff them, i am up for a fight and so should everyone else on here who gets these
ex clampers requests for money.


Lindun

1,965 posts

61 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
I'm sure it's lost on the many company directors on this page, but one of those issues is an upcoming trip to SA that I've failed to budget for, so the £50 would be much better put in the fund for that rather than causing me even more stress and more arguments with the Mrs.

If I have to, then I will just pay the £50 but if I can avoid it for the sake for a few hours and a couple of E-mails then job done.

Anyway a copy of the letter here is here if anyone is interested. Someone mentioned about a paragraph 9 (2) (e) not being present but I'm none the wiser.

Brilliant.

“I’m going on an expensive holiday and have completely failed to prepare for it, so this £50 will make all the difference. It’s not my fault.”

You really couldn’t make this up.

pavarotti1980

4,837 posts

83 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
silverfoxcc said:
Pav

I am keeping a list of all the sanctimonious and self centre holier-than- thou people who post on here saying pay it

What gives you the right etc etc

So when they get shafted for an unsolicited invoice asking htem to pay 100.00 for
Parking on awhite line
Over staying for a few minutes
and other spurious small print exemptions


I shall just post and say PAY UP


( Only joking)
It will be the same people that if they receive an NIP from the police for an actual offence outside of the 14 day window would use the provisions in legislation to get off with it. I think the word is hypocrite.

And i challenge any person to stick their hands up and say they would just own up to it and take the fine/points/SAC even if the police were not acting within legislative guidelines

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Friday 14th June 10:19

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
silverfoxcc said:
Stay in Bed

I have what is your point?

They have not used the word 'INVITE' They have to, it says so in that paragraph they quote.
The legislation does not stipulate the word 'invite' must used.


silverfoxcc

7,683 posts

144 months

Friday 14th June 2019
quotequote all
Stay in Bed

Here is the legislation regarding invoices sent by post where a windscreen ticket has not been affixed to the vehicle


The word MUST is used and in (e) INVITE...the keeper to give the name of the driver not SHOULD and an invite can be refused... this is not an S172 notice


so the letter fails OK?



Note(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
(c)describe the parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period, the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable;
(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at a time which is—
(i)specified in the notice; and
(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));
(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver; jut to make it clear it does say MUST and in