Driver Awareness Course - bizarre advice?
Discussion
I was on a Driver Awareness Course today, after lethally piloting my car up a clear straight dry empty three lane road (two in my direction) in the middle of nowhere at a breakneck 60mph (saw the camera van but thought it was a 60, it was 50mph, so my fault).
The chap taking the course was a driving instructor in his sixties I'd say with a long history of HGV driving, HGV training, then car training. His shirt said 'police staff', not sure if he actually driver trains police officers (think so).
Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it, but hey ho.
But the bit I found odd was his 'tips for controlling car speed and sticking to the limit'.
According to him, cars are designed to run most efficiently at 50-60mph, and he reckons that the problem is that therefore it's hard to keep the speed down in a higher gear, which he reckons we're all taught to be in.
So his advice is to only drive in 2nd gear in a 20mph limit and never higher than 3rd gear in a 30mph limit, irrespective of what the car is. He also said on modern cars with economy lights telling you to shift up, you can put the light out by simply lifting completely off the accelerator. Which probably works, albeit with the slight inconvenience that you'll grind to a halt...
For automatics it got even more bizarre. His advice was, when entering a 40mph or 30mph limit, you should put the gearbox into Sport Mode. This, he reckoned, would engage another set of lower gears, therefore making it easier to control the car speed. Once back on NSL roads, put it back in Comfort Mode.
Now I know for a fact that's utter nonsense. I've driven autos for years, Sport Mode makes the car more responsive to the throttle, kicking down a gear or two more quickly and letting the revs build higher when accelerating firmly. But they still revert to whatever gear you'd be in if you'd selected Comfort Mode when on an even throttle (as you would be most of the time when coasting through a 30mph zone). If anything, I'd have thought it's going to give the inept less car control as it will be more eager to kick down and accelerate.
Oh, and he doesn't like cruise controls 'because of aquaplaning' (I can only guess he's referring to the urban myth that occasionally does the Facebook rounds about the copper who apparently tells a woman who crashed that it's because she was on cruise control, when the car aquaplaned the cruise control made it suddenly accelerate, causing her to crash).
Oh and the final gem was him saying that the record for speeding in his county was a Porsche clocked at 155mph. But it was limited to that and no car will ever go faster because they are all limited to 155mph.
The whole thing struck me as utterly bonkers advice, especially the idea of people driving for miles in a 30mph in third (which might be sound for a fast high geared car, but surely not a 'shopping trolley' Ford Ka or similar?) And the engaging Sport Mode to get a lower gear on an auto.?
Or is his advice sound do you think?
The chap taking the course was a driving instructor in his sixties I'd say with a long history of HGV driving, HGV training, then car training. His shirt said 'police staff', not sure if he actually driver trains police officers (think so).
Most of the course was basically common sense which is a bit boring for those of us that already possess it, but hey ho.
But the bit I found odd was his 'tips for controlling car speed and sticking to the limit'.
According to him, cars are designed to run most efficiently at 50-60mph, and he reckons that the problem is that therefore it's hard to keep the speed down in a higher gear, which he reckons we're all taught to be in.
So his advice is to only drive in 2nd gear in a 20mph limit and never higher than 3rd gear in a 30mph limit, irrespective of what the car is. He also said on modern cars with economy lights telling you to shift up, you can put the light out by simply lifting completely off the accelerator. Which probably works, albeit with the slight inconvenience that you'll grind to a halt...
For automatics it got even more bizarre. His advice was, when entering a 40mph or 30mph limit, you should put the gearbox into Sport Mode. This, he reckoned, would engage another set of lower gears, therefore making it easier to control the car speed. Once back on NSL roads, put it back in Comfort Mode.
Now I know for a fact that's utter nonsense. I've driven autos for years, Sport Mode makes the car more responsive to the throttle, kicking down a gear or two more quickly and letting the revs build higher when accelerating firmly. But they still revert to whatever gear you'd be in if you'd selected Comfort Mode when on an even throttle (as you would be most of the time when coasting through a 30mph zone). If anything, I'd have thought it's going to give the inept less car control as it will be more eager to kick down and accelerate.
Oh, and he doesn't like cruise controls 'because of aquaplaning' (I can only guess he's referring to the urban myth that occasionally does the Facebook rounds about the copper who apparently tells a woman who crashed that it's because she was on cruise control, when the car aquaplaned the cruise control made it suddenly accelerate, causing her to crash).
Oh and the final gem was him saying that the record for speeding in his county was a Porsche clocked at 155mph. But it was limited to that and no car will ever go faster because they are all limited to 155mph.
The whole thing struck me as utterly bonkers advice, especially the idea of people driving for miles in a 30mph in third (which might be sound for a fast high geared car, but surely not a 'shopping trolley' Ford Ka or similar?) And the engaging Sport Mode to get a lower gear on an auto.?
Or is his advice sound do you think?
Ari said:
So his advice is to only drive in 2nd gear in a 20mph limit and never higher than 3rd gear in a 30mph limit, irrespective of what the car is. He also said on modern cars with economy lights telling you to shift up, you can put the light out by simply lifting completely off the accelerator. Which probably works, albeit with the slight inconvenience that you'll grind to a halt...
Seems daft to me too but I'm pretty sure driving instructors teach people to use 3rd in a 30 limit these days too. My car is happiest and mot efficient in 5th in a 30 limit as long as it's not up-hill. ETA: For people who are incapable of keeping their speed down to 30 in 30 limits, being in a lower gear probably does help.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 6th August 19:56
I had an experience several years ago where a similar sort of chap told the room with a straight face that "a professional driver can always stop quicker without ABS but it makes you lot safer because you aren't that skilled". I questioned this based on my experience of calibrating Bosch ABS systems for motosport and road car use along with, at the time, being a paid test driver which eventually resulted in being told to be quite or I would be marked as having not attended.
The only thing more terrifying than the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability members of the public have is the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability those who are supposed to improve the general publics motoring ability have.
The only thing more terrifying than the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability members of the public have is the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability those who are supposed to improve the general publics motoring ability have.
Yep, 20/2nd, 30/3rd, 40/4th, 50/5th in general for me in manual cars. It's not so much about keeping the speed down as being able to roll on and off the throttle, losing and gaining a few mph as necessary to make smooth progress through the various obstacles, oncoming traffic, roundabouts etc etc in a 30.
I'd say the sport-mode-in-an-auto thing is utter rubbish, though; as is "all cars are limited to 155".
I also wouldn't use cruise in the streaming wet, it's just generally frightening to try (guess why when my step-father offers to drive, I say "no, it's ok, we'll take mine"....)
I'd say the sport-mode-in-an-auto thing is utter rubbish, though; as is "all cars are limited to 155".
I also wouldn't use cruise in the streaming wet, it's just generally frightening to try (guess why when my step-father offers to drive, I say "no, it's ok, we'll take mine"....)
Depending on the car third gear in a 30 isn't unreasonable. Driving for any distance at a steady 30 you might be better in 4th but if you keep having to slow down a bit as is common in 30s 3rd can make more sense. At least in 3rd you can slow down and then speed up again with a better throttle response and without having to change gear. Some people never seem to have their hand off the gear lever in 30 limits because they keep grabbing 4th at every opportunity.
Been there, so has a guy I used to work with.
I do agree that dropping to 3rd gear does tend to hold you to 30mph unless going down hill and tend tio use that sometimes.Depends on the car though as you say. Dropping to 3rd in the Caterham makes quite a noise at 30mph. Sounds like you are speeding, the TVR in 3rd is a different kettle of fish.
No idea on cruise or auto or different drive modes.
Overall, a mix of common sense/decent advice and cobblers.
I do agree that dropping to 3rd gear does tend to hold you to 30mph unless going down hill and tend tio use that sometimes.Depends on the car though as you say. Dropping to 3rd in the Caterham makes quite a noise at 30mph. Sounds like you are speeding, the TVR in 3rd is a different kettle of fish.
No idea on cruise or auto or different drive modes.
Overall, a mix of common sense/decent advice and cobblers.
The third gear in a 30 zone thing is just supposed make you far more aware of the speed you are doing, engine speed and noise being greater - I always thought it was aimed at the otherwise oblivious driver who might casually drift over the limit in a higher gear.
The rest of it sounds like bobbins though.
The rest of it sounds like bobbins though.
poppopbangbang said:
I had an experience several years ago where a similar sort of chap told the room with a straight face that "a professional driver can always stop quicker without ABS but it makes you lot safer because you aren't that skilled". I questioned this based on my experience of calibrating Bosch ABS systems for motosport and road car use along with, at the time, being a paid test driver which eventually resulted in being told to be quite or I would be marked as having not attended.
The only thing more terrifying than the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability members of the public have is the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability those who are supposed to improve the general publics motoring ability have.
I didn't bother querying it for that reason and for not wanting to be there any longer than absolutely necessary. Nearly bit through my tongue keeping my mouth shut though! The only thing more terrifying than the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability members of the public have is the lack of general automotive knowledge and ability those who are supposed to improve the general publics motoring ability have.
I have an email address for the course, wondering whether to write in and suggest they check their facts a little more carefully.
kambites said:
I think the "cruise control causes aquaplaning" thing, whilst clearly not literally true, probably comes from the fact that if you have have CC engaged and hit standing water, it takes you longer to come off the throttle.
Would you want to come off the throttle? I think I'd want to keep an even throttle in a temporary loss of grip situation. Ari said:
Would you want to come off the throttle? I think I'd want to keep an even throttle in a temporary loss of grip situation.
You want to maintain a constant wheel speed not constant throttle. If you're driving at constant throttle (hence engine power exactly overcoming drag) and the front wheels lose contact with the road surface and hence lose all traction, they will spin faster. Although having said that, of course maintaining constant wheel speed is exactly what cruise control is for.
I think with modern stability control systems it's all a moot point anyway; whatever mode the car is in it will do a vastly better job of dealing with aquaplaning the driver will. I think modern stability control systems disable the cruise control if they detect a significant differential in wheel speed anyway? I suppose it's also quite possible that using cruise control encourages people to drive faster in poor conditions than they naturally would. I don't know.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 6th August 20:08
Ari said:
Would you want to come off the throttle? I think I'd want to keep an even throttle in a temporary loss of grip situation.
You’d want to maintain the wheel speed. Steady throttle will increase wheel speed when traction is lost? I think older cruise systems would add throttle as speed was lost.Hungrymc said:
Ari said:
Would you want to come off the throttle? I think I'd want to keep an even throttle in a temporary loss of grip situation.
You’d want to maintain the wheel speed. Steady throttle will increase wheel speed when traction is lost? I think older cruise systems would add throttle as speed was lost.Teachers talk b
ks it's a lifelong fact.
I remember a physics teacher Mr Handscombe in Samuel Whitbread Upper School in Shefford. amongst a lot of other crap he told me was his car(Peugeot 504 Wagon) didn't have spark plugs because it was a turbo.
He was right it was a turbo, but a TD. dhead.
Also berated me for answering that a measure of pressure was PSI. This after a long silence when no one in the class answered.
You do remember your good teachers but also the bad ones.
ks it's a lifelong fact.I remember a physics teacher Mr Handscombe in Samuel Whitbread Upper School in Shefford. amongst a lot of other crap he told me was his car(Peugeot 504 Wagon) didn't have spark plugs because it was a turbo.
He was right it was a turbo, but a TD. d
head.Also berated me for answering that a measure of pressure was PSI. This after a long silence when no one in the class answered.
You do remember your good teachers but also the bad ones.
He's probably right about the auto box - in heavy motorway traffic, when I had a BMW with the ZF8, I used to stick it in Sport as it gave more engine braking - it will naturally use a lower gear than in Comfort, but also seems to be more aggressive with the torque converter, rather than letting the car coast.
I had a moment many years ago in a mondeo on cruise control. On a dual carriageway at night in the rain and using cruise control. The car hit a steam of water running across the road and slowed rapidly, I believe the cruise control opened the throttle to regain the lost speed. The car aqauplaned but no harm done. It all happened very quickly so I cannot be sure if the CC did react, but I think it did.
OP mentioned that using sport mode on an auto doesn’t engage a lower gear when on a steady throttle. It does on my Mercedes, unless already at motorway type speeds.
I heard similar advice about using certain gears in a 30 zone when attending my speed awareness course. I just nodded.
OP mentioned that using sport mode on an auto doesn’t engage a lower gear when on a steady throttle. It does on my Mercedes, unless already at motorway type speeds.
I heard similar advice about using certain gears in a 30 zone when attending my speed awareness course. I just nodded.
Just sit, nod and swerve the points.
On mine one was ok, the other was a knob.
2 classics were:
Asking the room when they last drove through a 20 limit.
A guy says "not for ages" and he replies "well that's funny, how did you get here then? Fly in on a helicopter? The road outside is 20!" and goes on about how he'll getting more points etc.
The guy says "I live round the corner... I walked".
Instructor changes the subject. No apology.
The same instructor gave a top tip - don't fill your car with fuel, as you'll be carrying all that fuel around all the time - wasting fuel.
He only puts between £5-£10 in and drives until the light comes on.
He does 40k a year so a big saving...
...except it means that every other day you'd need to be stopping for fuel!
On mine one was ok, the other was a knob.
2 classics were:
Asking the room when they last drove through a 20 limit.
A guy says "not for ages" and he replies "well that's funny, how did you get here then? Fly in on a helicopter? The road outside is 20!" and goes on about how he'll getting more points etc.
The guy says "I live round the corner... I walked".
Instructor changes the subject. No apology.
The same instructor gave a top tip - don't fill your car with fuel, as you'll be carrying all that fuel around all the time - wasting fuel.
He only puts between £5-£10 in and drives until the light comes on.
He does 40k a year so a big saving...
...except it means that every other day you'd need to be stopping for fuel!
Ari said:
I didn't bother querying it for that reason and for not wanting to be there any longer than absolutely necessary. Nearly bit through my tongue keeping my mouth shut though!
I have an email address for the course, wondering whether to write in and suggest they check their facts a little more carefully.
I’d damn well email them and mention the threat to mark you as absent , don’t know the legal implications but it could pervert the course of justice at a minor level ?I have an email address for the course, wondering whether to write in and suggest they check their facts a little more carefully.
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