Driver Awareness Course - bizarre advice?
Discussion
I have been on a couple of awareness courses over the years, all dual carriageway speed van affairs I don't speed in urban areas like most of the attendees. My advice, sit at the back and ignore the entire thing. Think some politician or chief inspector is getting an enormous backhander from the companies providing them.
Deranged Rover said:
Surely the very fact that you’re on a Driver Awareness Course in the first place suggests that maybe sitting back and ignoring the whole thing might not be the cleverest move...
Just there to keep the points off, what they say or do has no consequence to how I drive. And before the rant 35 years no accidents.reglard said:
Deranged Rover said:
Surely the very fact that you’re on a Driver Awareness Course in the first place suggests that maybe sitting back and ignoring the whole thing might not be the cleverest move...
Just there to keep the points off, what they say or do has no consequence to how I drive. And before the rant 35 years no accidents.vonhosen said:
RSTurboPaul said:
vonhosen said:
Real life is what it is, not what you want it to be.
The elected government make the rules.
If they are driving at 28 in a 30 & you want to drive at 40, they are doing what they are supposed to & if you are getting frustrated by that you are struggling to both do what you should be doing & deal effectively with them doing what they are.
I agree - I do struggle at times to not get extremely frustrated in that situation.The elected government make the rules.
If they are driving at 28 in a 30 & you want to drive at 40, they are doing what they are supposed to & if you are getting frustrated by that you are struggling to both do what you should be doing & deal effectively with them doing what they are.
It is not the learner doing what they must that is the issue, it is the inappropriate speed limit that causes the frustration.
If speed limits are set at the ~50th percentile (or something like the 13th percentile in most 20 limits, going from the official statistics...: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen... then they do not reflect user behaviour and are incorrect and should be based on the 85th percentile speeds, and/or the road layout and surrounding environment needs to be changed to deliver the desired vehicle speeds if lower speeds are sought..
All that'll happen is they'll fine you & give you points.
We either learn to deal with that or a world of pain beckons.
I'd personally travel much faster than most limits given the freedom to choose, but realistically it's not going to happen, so I tend to just travel at speeds that aren't going to attract sanction. I'm accepting of that & as such it doesn't cause me stress or frustration. I simply plan my journeys according to what the limits are, not what speed I'd wish to travel at.
jm doc said:
vonhosen said:
RSTurboPaul said:
vonhosen said:
Real life is what it is, not what you want it to be.
The elected government make the rules.
If they are driving at 28 in a 30 & you want to drive at 40, they are doing what they are supposed to & if you are getting frustrated by that you are struggling to both do what you should be doing & deal effectively with them doing what they are.
I agree - I do struggle at times to not get extremely frustrated in that situation.The elected government make the rules.
If they are driving at 28 in a 30 & you want to drive at 40, they are doing what they are supposed to & if you are getting frustrated by that you are struggling to both do what you should be doing & deal effectively with them doing what they are.
It is not the learner doing what they must that is the issue, it is the inappropriate speed limit that causes the frustration.
If speed limits are set at the ~50th percentile (or something like the 13th percentile in most 20 limits, going from the official statistics...: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen... then they do not reflect user behaviour and are incorrect and should be based on the 85th percentile speeds, and/or the road layout and surrounding environment needs to be changed to deliver the desired vehicle speeds if lower speeds are sought..
All that'll happen is they'll fine you & give you points.
We either learn to deal with that or a world of pain beckons.
I'd personally travel much faster than most limits given the freedom to choose, but realistically it's not going to happen, so I tend to just travel at speeds that aren't going to attract sanction. I'm accepting of that & as such it doesn't cause me stress or frustration. I simply plan my journeys according to what the limits are, not what speed I'd wish to travel at.
I am personally willing to accept higher risks when I drive/ride, but I accept that others who have to share the roads with me may not wish to share in my higher risk taking.
I accept that I am not perfect in my driving/riding & can suffer from errors of judgement &/or make mistakes.
I accept that a democratic government may seek to impose control measures to limit my risk taking through my choice of speed (it's not all about me & what I want after all, they have far wider considerations).
I accept that if I still decide to go outside those that I may be subject to censure & penalty.
I accept that speed limits are a blunt tool, but on balance that we are probably better off with them than without them.
I make my driving/riding choices with all that in mind but at the same time don't feel with the current levels of enforcement (& I live in an area of the country with more enforcement than most) that I am hard done by or victimised.
I'm no saint, but a 'world of pain' is reasonably easy to avoid without strict compliance everywhere, through just a measure of awareness, thought & self control.
Deranged Rover said:
As an aside, the thing that concerned me was how most of the course participants had no clue about speed limits. They showed us pictures of five road scenarios at the very start of the course and asked what we thought the limits were - I was the only one in a room of 24 people who got all five correct.
It would be interesting to know what the 5 scenarios were. And the precise wording of the question.If it was a simple "what limit applies?" (or equivalent phrasing), the correct answer is "It depends..." (see below).
Also, did those people who got it 'wrong' tend to overestimate or underestimate in their replies?
Deranged Rover said:
Most disturbing of all was that picture number 5 was of a motorway - everyone recognised it straightaway as a motorway but only 16 out of 25 knew the limit was 70mph! Two older ladies both thought it was 40mph which, to be fair, does explain a few things...
Leaving the older ladies aside, it's not that simple. The correct answer will depend on the type of road, what vehicle you are driving, and where in the UK.
And even that graphic appears to be incomplete.
- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2014/274/note/ma...https://goo.gl/maps/Wu7Hwz7fX5YC6YaQ9
Red Devil said:
Leaving the older ladies aside, it's not that simple. The correct answer will depend on the type of road, what vehicle you are driving, and where in the UK.
I should have clarified that the motorway one clearly showed three lanes, blue signs, an overhead gantry with blank signs (so no temporary lower speed limits in place) and we were asked the speed limit as applied to a standard car or motorcycle.I'll have a search later and see if i can find the actual pictures.
Deranged Rover said:
Red Devil said:
Leaving the older ladies aside, it's not that simple. The correct answer will depend on the type of road, what vehicle you are driving, and where in the UK.
I should have clarified that the motorway one clearly showed three lanes, blue signs, an overhead gantry with blank signs (so no temporary lower speed limits in place) and we were asked the speed limit as applied to a standard car or motorcycle.I'll have a search later and see if i can find the actual pictures.
Longer thread than I anticipated....so have only read the first page. 
Sport mode with my S Tronic gearbox at town speeds will always hold a lower gear than auto mode regardless of throttle pressure.
Fifth gear in a manual gearbox is too high a ratio at 30mph. I remember when the 8th generation Honda Civic was released which I believe was one of the first mainstream cars to be fitted as standard with a 6 speed gearbox.....and some owners were saying they used 6th for 30mph town driving.
Cruise control will disengage when aquaplaning, but all manufacturers advise against using when there is standing water.
Sport mode with my S Tronic gearbox at town speeds will always hold a lower gear than auto mode regardless of throttle pressure.
Fifth gear in a manual gearbox is too high a ratio at 30mph. I remember when the 8th generation Honda Civic was released which I believe was one of the first mainstream cars to be fitted as standard with a 6 speed gearbox.....and some owners were saying they used 6th for 30mph town driving.
Cruise control will disengage when aquaplaning, but all manufacturers advise against using when there is standing water.
Pothole said:
Deranged Rover said:
Red Devil said:
Leaving the older ladies aside, it's not that simple. The correct answer will depend on the type of road, what vehicle you are driving, and where in the UK.
I should have clarified that the motorway one clearly showed three lanes, blue signs, an overhead gantry with blank signs (so no temporary lower speed limits in place) and we were asked the speed limit as applied to a standard car or motorcycle.I'll have a search later and see if i can find the actual pictures.
It depends on the question. The poster I was responding to has now confirmed the specifics.
I have no idea whether the pictures are standardised across all courses with all providers. Likewise the questions.
The latter need to be granular due to the possible permutations. There may be other attendees besides car drivers/motorcycle riders.
You know what they say about assume.
@ Deranged Rover. That would be
Preferably with the accompanying questions.bigdog3 said:
jm doc said:
So you think it acceptable to be forced to endure "a world of pain" for travelling at a speed which is known to be safe?
All speeds are unsafe because motion will cause accidents. There is only one safe speed - zero ! 
- http://a34crash.com/The vehicle in which the victims died was stationary.
There is no such thing as 100% safe. Only degrees of risk.
Automation may help, but anything which is designed and built by humans will be flawed.
Planes still crash.
bigdog3 said:
All speeds are unsafe because motion will cause accidents. There is only one safe speed - zero !
And, as that isn't practical in the real world, there needs to be a compromise. If only we had some kind of rules that everybody agreed to follow rather than people thinking "f*ck everybody else, I'll drive at whatever speed I choose because it's the only way I can demonstrate my manhood".The course is tailored to the general public that neither know nor want to know anything much about driving.
He's come up with a "rule" that will mostly work or be close. He's saying it for all the people above that don't know any better, and don't want to think about why/how it may be right wrong.
It's why the driving test is Mirror Signal Manoeuvre. Because it fits most situations most of the time, and the public can therefore just do it.
As has been said, stay quiet, suck up the points, and be smug in the knowledge that you don't just take what's said as gospel but instead find works for you, your car and the situation.
He's come up with a "rule" that will mostly work or be close. He's saying it for all the people above that don't know any better, and don't want to think about why/how it may be right wrong.
It's why the driving test is Mirror Signal Manoeuvre. Because it fits most situations most of the time, and the public can therefore just do it.
As has been said, stay quiet, suck up the points, and be smug in the knowledge that you don't just take what's said as gospel but instead find works for you, your car and the situation.
Red Devil said:
bigdog3 said:
jm doc said:
So you think it acceptable to be forced to endure "a world of pain" for travelling at a speed which is known to be safe?
All speeds are unsafe because motion will cause accidents. There is only one safe speed - zero ! - http://a34crash.com/The vehicle in which the victims died was stationary.
Countdown said:
bigdog3 said:
All speeds are unsafe because motion will cause accidents. There is only one safe speed - zero !
And, as that isn't practical in the real world, there needs to be a compromise.
k 
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