1500W E-Bike. You’re nicked.

1500W E-Bike. You’re nicked.

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Discussion

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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MaxFromage said:
I have a Haibike sDuro Cross 6.0 with the Yamaha PW-SE motor. 70nm of torque and cadence support up to 110rpm.

Luckily my friend has the exact model but with a Badass box fitted. What a coincidence.

I would never want to open the motor up, so the Badass box is a better alternative, just fitting over the speed sensor and doubling the speed limit to around 32mph. Removable in seconds.

As a relatively fit cyclist the 15.5mph limit is annoying. In many circumstances I'm cutting in and out of assistance. If the limit was increased to around 22mph, it would be perfect.

With the Badass box fitted it's an absolute beast. Even though the PW-SE is meant to be the touring version (compared to the PW-X and Bosch Performance Line), it still eats 15% climbs.
Perhaps if you bought a proper bicycle, instead of a lazy ba$tard electric assisted bicycle, you could become a really fit cyclist? scratchchin

ElectricPics

761 posts

80 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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4rephill said:
MaxFromage said:
I have a Haibike sDuro Cross 6.0 with the Yamaha PW-SE motor. 70nm of torque and cadence support up to 110rpm.

Luckily my friend has the exact model but with a Badass box fitted. What a coincidence.

I would never want to open the motor up, so the Badass box is a better alternative, just fitting over the speed sensor and doubling the speed limit to around 32mph. Removable in seconds.

As a relatively fit cyclist the 15.5mph limit is annoying. In many circumstances I'm cutting in and out of assistance. If the limit was increased to around 22mph, it would be perfect.

With the Badass box fitted it's an absolute beast. Even though the PW-SE is meant to be the touring version (compared to the PW-X and Bosch Performance Line), it still eats 15% climbs.
Perhaps if you bought a proper bicycle, instead of a lazy ba$tard electric assisted bicycle, you could become a really fit cyclist? scratchchin
Pedelecs have varying levels of assist, from very little to quite a lot. If you only use the lowest settings they only give a maximum of 15-20% assistance, but as most are a good 15-20% heavier than an average mountain or hybrid bike, the effort is actually around the same. And most riders go further and faster on them. I have one to take the edge off winter weather so I'm more inclined to go out. The Bosch system on mine is intelligent so the more effort you put through the pedals, the less it assists. I can't say I see the point in getting them hacked as I still want a workout.

MaxFromage

1,859 posts

130 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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4rephill said:
Perhaps if you bought a proper bicycle, instead of a lazy ba$tard electric assisted bicycle, you could become a really fit cyclist? scratchchin
Would it also help me become a sanctimonious tw@t like you as well?

MaxFromage

1,859 posts

130 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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ElectricPics said:
Pedelecs have varying levels of assist, from very little to quite a lot. If you only use the lowest settings they only give a maximum of 15-20% assistance, but as most are a good 15-20% heavier than an average mountain or hybrid bike, the effort is actually around the same. And most riders go further and faster on them. I have one to take the edge off winter weather so I'm more inclined to go out. The Bosch system on mine is intelligent so the more effort you put through the pedals, the less it assists. I can't say I see the point in getting them hacked as I still want a workout.
I've done comparisons between a standard bike, standard electric and 'chipped'. As you essentially suggest in your own summary, you can get the same workout using all three methods, it's just each one is faster than the other. The advantage for me is a dodgy knee, which can flare up. The electric assistance helps when it does and also allows me access to more interesting areas due to the higher average speed.

Legacywr

12,016 posts

187 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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ElectricPics said:
Pedelecs have varying levels of assist, from very little to quite a lot. If you only use the lowest settings they only give a maximum of 15-20% assistance, but as most are a good 15-20% heavier than an average mountain or hybrid bike, the effort is actually around the same. And most riders go further and faster on them. I have one to take the edge off winter weather so I'm more inclined to go out. The Bosch system on mine is intelligent so the more effort you put through the pedals, the less it assists. I can't say I see the point in getting them hacked as I still want a workout.
A 15% heavier bike, won’t need anywhere near 15% more effort.

The majority of pedalling effort is spent combating wind resistance.

Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Saturday 17th August 2019
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Legacywr said:
A 15% heavier bike, won’t need anywhere near 15% more effort.

The majority of pedalling effort is spent combating wind resistance.
15%

Guys I ride with every week are all on carbon framed stuff that’s literally half the weight of my Haibike.

I think they’re lazy and getting no exercise because it’s so easy for them to carry them over walls and stiles.

GC8

19,910 posts

189 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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yellowjack said:
Eh? 15 mph is the average speed I'm aiming for on the road, including climbing hills. Any slower and I'd be considering giving up cycling to be honest.
Thats all well and good, but surely the faster you go, the harder you work, the more of your concentration is given to working rather than riding? Im sure that we have all seen the recent viral video of the cyclist concentrating only on speed who cycled into the back of a stationary bus?

Im not saying that riding at 20mph is dangerous, of course, but I am suggesting that concentration on the road suffers as speed increases.

ElectricPics

761 posts

80 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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GC8 said:
yellowjack said:
Eh? 15 mph is the average speed I'm aiming for on the road, including climbing hills. Any slower and I'd be considering giving up cycling to be honest.
Thats all well and good, but surely the faster you go, the harder you work, the more of your concentration is given to working rather than riding? Im sure that we have all seen the recent viral video of the cyclist concentrating only on speed who cycled into the back of a stationary bus?

Im not saying that riding at 20mph is dangerous, of course, but I am suggesting that concentration on the road suffers as speed increases.
Agreed. 15-20 or more is good on a quiet road. Any faster and in busier areas and your efforts on staying alive by avoiding the constant threats from pedestrians, vehicles and even other cyclists gets reduced as you concentrate on keeping your speed up, and your reaction time is also obviously reduced. You'd never get a nutter completely absorbed by their Strava times agreeing though.

ChocolateFrog

24,850 posts

172 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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For once I think the law has it about right, maybe on the conservative side but what do you expect.

The youtubers with multiple kw homebuilds that they then rag around on the road need the book throwing at them, they'll spoil it for the guineas users.

There is a gap in the market for a legal ebike between currently legal ebikes and electric motorbikes. Not sure how you'd work it though.

skwdenyer

16,176 posts

239 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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ChocolateFrog said:
For once I think the law has it about right, maybe on the conservative side but what do you expect.

The youtubers with multiple kw homebuilds that they then rag around on the road need the book throwing at them, they'll spoil it for the guineas users.

There is a gap in the market for a legal ebike between currently legal ebikes and electric motorbikes. Not sure how you'd work it though.
I expect this country to stop being so bloody conservative, that’s what. The world is passing us by.

ChocolateFrog

24,850 posts

172 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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skwdenyer said:
ChocolateFrog said:
For once I think the law has it about right, maybe on the conservative side but what do you expect.

The youtubers with multiple kw homebuilds that they then rag around on the road need the book throwing at them, they'll spoil it for the guineas users.

There is a gap in the market for a legal ebike between currently legal ebikes and electric motorbikes. Not sure how you'd work it though.
I expect this country to stop being so bloody conservative, that’s what. The world is passing us by.
That's fine until someone wipes your children out silently at 40mph at night and without any form of insurance.

Solocle

3,247 posts

83 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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ChocolateFrog said:
That's fine until someone wipes your children out silently at 40mph at night and without any form of insurance.

getmecoat

skwdenyer

16,176 posts

239 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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ChocolateFrog said:
That's fine until someone wipes your children out silently at 40mph at night and without any form of insurance.
With respect, I’ve already suggested I could live with a speed limit, but I believe there should be no power limit.

If my son is wiped out (as in killed) I really won’t care a damn about insurance. There’s no financial loss to me. If he is injured, we’ll, yes that’s an issue.

But we live in the Dales, where silent, uninsured cyclists frequently come down hills at that speed. Electricity has no bearing.

My son and I both believe there’s a Darwin Award aspect to being a pedestrian - if you don’t observe other traffic then there’s a strong chance of death. He used to cycle to school in central London on his own from age 9, and with me on main London streets from age 6. He’s been brought up to be cautious and observant.

Compulsory insurance for cyclists of all types is a good idea, but impractical. Instead I think the stage should provide cover, paid for from general taxation. That should cover cycles, Segways, mobility scooters, etc. It is in the public interest that this should be done IMHO.

Failure to tackle a solvable insurance issue is not grounds for living in the past.


Solocle

3,247 posts

83 months

Monday 19th August 2019
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skwdenyer said:
With respect, I’ve already suggested I could live with a speed limit, but I believe there should be no power limit.

If my son is wiped out (as in killed) I really won’t care a damn about insurance. There’s no financial loss to me. If he is injured, we’ll, yes that’s an issue.

But we live in the Dales, where silent, uninsured cyclists frequently come down hills at that speed. Electricity has no bearing.

My son and I both believe there’s a Darwin Award aspect to being a pedestrian - if you don’t observe other traffic then there’s a strong chance of death. He used to cycle to school in central London on his own from age 9, and with me on main London streets from age 6. He’s been brought up to be cautious and observant.

Compulsory insurance for cyclists of all types is a good idea, but impractical. Instead I think the stage should provide cover, paid for from general taxation. That should cover cycles, Segways, mobility scooters, etc. It is in the public interest that this should be done IMHO.

Failure to tackle a solvable insurance issue is not grounds for living in the past.
Yep... my above speed record was down Fleet Moss. When I reigstered the potholes behind me it was a bit of a brown trouser moment!

skwdenyer

16,176 posts

239 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
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Solocle said:
Yep... my above speed record was down Fleet Moss. When I reigstered the potholes behind me it was a bit of a brown trouser moment!
Makes you glad for the modern innovation of leather block brakes wink

RTB

8,273 posts

257 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
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Do you still have to get dressed up like a mime artist and wear those silly clippy cloppy shoes to ride an ebike? Asking for a friend...

yellowjack

17,065 posts

165 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
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ElectricPics said:
GC8 said:
yellowjack said:
Eh? 15 mph is the average speed I'm aiming for on the road, including climbing hills. Any slower and I'd be considering giving up cycling to be honest.
Thats all well and good, but surely the faster you go, the harder you work, the more of your concentration is given to working rather than riding? Im sure that we have all seen the recent viral video of the cyclist concentrating only on speed who cycled into the back of a stationary bus?

Im not saying that riding at 20mph is dangerous, of course, but I am suggesting that concentration on the road suffers as speed increases.
Agreed. 15-20 or more is good on a quiet road. Any faster and in busier areas and your efforts on staying alive by avoiding the constant threats from pedestrians, vehicles and even other cyclists gets reduced as you concentrate on keeping your speed up, and your reaction time is also obviously reduced. You'd never get a nutter completely absorbed by their Strava times agreeing though.
Can't say I've noticed any reduction in concentration on the road when working harder. In fact, much like driving fast on minor roads, concentration levels tend to increase in line with speed. And because I'm not "completely absorbed by [my] Strava times", my head is usually up, and enjoying the scenery. I've been lucky. I used to live in "Jane Austen country", and now "Thomas Hardy country" is just a short ride away, along with the coast and the New Forest so the scenery is usually lovely. I don't "train" - I simply "ride bicycles for the pure enjoyment of it". The physical health benefits are secondary. All my racing is done on the MTB scene, so entirely traffic free, with all participants travelling in the same direction. I don't take the racing too seriously either, by the way, it's more about the camaraderie of an event and the opportunity to ride a closed loop knowing that you're not going to meet other riders coming up a hill when you're flying down it.

Believe me, if I were flying over the handlebars every time I grabbed a fistful of brake lever, I'd soon slow down, but I manage to stop perfectly well for traffic lights and zebra crossings without sliding down the road on my 'Arris. If you find yourself doing this, I'd suggest a cycle skills coaching course, because to put it politely, "you're doing it all wrong"...

Solocle

3,247 posts

83 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
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yellowjack said:
Can't say I've noticed any reduction in concentration on the road when working harder. In fact, much like driving fast on minor roads, concentration levels tend to increase in line with speed. And because I'm not "completely absorbed by [my] Strava times", my head is usually up, and enjoying the scenery. I've been lucky. I used to live in "Jane Austen country", and now "Thomas Hardy country" is just a short ride away, along with the coast and the New Forest so the scenery is usually lovely. I don't "train" - I simply "ride bicycles for the pure enjoyment of it". The physical health benefits are secondary. All my racing is done on the MTB scene, so entirely traffic free, with all participants travelling in the same direction. I don't take the racing too seriously either, by the way, it's more about the camaraderie of an event and the opportunity to ride a closed loop knowing that you're not going to meet other riders coming up a hill when you're flying down it.

Believe me, if I were flying over the handlebars every time I grabbed a fistful of brake lever, I'd soon slow down, but I manage to stop perfectly well for traffic lights and zebra crossings without sliding down the road on my 'Arris. If you find yourself doing this, I'd suggest a cycle skills coaching course, because to put it politely, "you're doing it all wrong"...
Indeed. The only time I've been concerned about doing an endo was descending Hardknott Pass. I had my arse behind the saddle like I expect is frequent in the MTB races, but without the dropper seatpost! (...now, there's an idea...) I still managed quite nicely. I've even had to slow down quite quickly from 40+ mph when I hit some gravel approaching a corner (I took my line a bit too wide... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or3mRGmrg9I&t=... )
Modulation is key.

skwdenyer

16,176 posts

239 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
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Solocle said:
Indeed. The only time I've been concerned about doing an endo was descending Hardknott Pass. I had my arse behind the saddle like I expect is frequent in the MTB races, but without the dropper seatpost! (...now, there's an idea...) I still managed quite nicely. I've even had to slow down quite quickly from 40+ mph when I hit some gravel approaching a corner (I took my line a bit too wide... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or3mRGmrg9I&t=... )
Modulation is key.
You were doing 50mph when you yipped. You had slowed to 37mph as you entered the 30mph limit under the Mere bypass.

I think that’s the sort of thing one of the earlier posters was assuring me would happen if we let people have more powerful eBikes smile


anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
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Because nobody has ever exceeded 40 mph on a bicycle

biggrin

I’d be more worried about someone not paying attention texting. But let’s not confuse the already muddled rofl