Modifications - for insurance purposes.
Discussion
Insurers request that all mods are disclosed. However, how far does that go?
I think back to new cars I've bought where the dealership has changed the wheels for better ones. Correct for the car, but better ones than it left the factory with. Is it a mod?
Body graphics. For example Mini chequered roof. Available from new, but perhaps added later. Mod?
I have had cars from new that the dealership had retro-fitted things to and I didn't realise until I re-sold the car. I suppose technically they would be disclosable, but I didn't know they were non-factory.
Sure, if I fit some OZ wheels, bigger brakes and fat exhaust I know they are mods and would disclose them. I am not sure that I would even think to disclose after-market rear privacy glass, side steps or graphics. But could it give insurers scope to be tricky, even if I was unaware that these things were not standard, despite being a standard option.
It's a good point & i tend to follow the OEM route, so if the item was/could have been fitted during manufacture, then i'd unlikely disclose it, although i'm sure this 'could' give Insurers wriggle room if they saw fit.
So many Mfctrs have such extensive options lists, it would be hard to tell what was/wasn't an option when the car was new. Would anyone mention Sunroof, mud-flaps, dog guard, roof rack, lane departure warning, or active cruise control over regular cruise control (amongst hundreds of other possibilities) for instance.
So many Mfctrs have such extensive options lists, it would be hard to tell what was/wasn't an option when the car was new. Would anyone mention Sunroof, mud-flaps, dog guard, roof rack, lane departure warning, or active cruise control over regular cruise control (amongst hundreds of other possibilities) for instance.
w8pmc said:
it would be hard to tell what was/wasn't an option when the car was new.
I wouldn't say that is strictly true.With my VW Golf mk7 for instance, you can input the VIN into VW's service tool and it will provide a wealth of information on what was and wasn't supplied with the car originally.
I'm not saying you should have to declare absolutely everything though. I mean ... they can hardly invalidate your insurance for a sticker, can they!?
When I told my insurer I was planning to change my gear knob (yea, I know), they just put it on the cert as "various interior modifications" ... so I guess that opens me up to do other interior mods without having to pay their stupid £15 admin fee each time I make minor interior modifications.
The theory behind the sticker thing as I understand it is that if there were 2 identical models parked next to each other and 1 had stickers on it then the scrotes would be more likely to break into it.
They do class modifications as anything other than it left the factory with whether that be dealer fitted or owner fitted. If it didn't leave the factory with it then it's classed as a modification.
They do class modifications as anything other than it left the factory with whether that be dealer fitted or owner fitted. If it didn't leave the factory with it then it's classed as a modification.
markyb_lcy said:
I wouldn't say that is strictly true.
With my VW Golf mk7 for instance, you can input the VIN into VW's service tool and it will provide a wealth of information on what was and wasn't supplied with the car originally.
I'm not saying you should have to declare absolutely everything though. I mean ... they can hardly invalidate your insurance for a sticker, can they!?
When I told my insurer I was planning to change my gear knob (yea, I know), they just put it on the cert as "various interior modifications" ... so I guess that opens me up to do other interior mods without having to pay their stupid £15 admin fee each time I make minor interior modifications.
You can do similar with may Mfctrs/Models, however if you're requesting insurance for a 2nd hand 12mth old Golf GTi 5dr, then that's what you'd tell the insurers. How's Joe public going to know what options the original buyer did/didn't have fitted?With my VW Golf mk7 for instance, you can input the VIN into VW's service tool and it will provide a wealth of information on what was and wasn't supplied with the car originally.
I'm not saying you should have to declare absolutely everything though. I mean ... they can hardly invalidate your insurance for a sticker, can they!?
When I told my insurer I was planning to change my gear knob (yea, I know), they just put it on the cert as "various interior modifications" ... so I guess that opens me up to do other interior mods without having to pay their stupid £15 admin fee each time I make minor interior modifications.
I had an A8 Black Edition up until last Summer, it didn't show on any Insurers website as a Black Edition, but this model had bigger wheels, Bose stereo, darkened rear windows, Sports suspension & several other options, that a non Black Edition of the same genre didn't have. All options were factory fitted, but the Insurers pulled the details of the Registration as an A8 3.0TDi SE (or something similar). I explained the subtle difference & was told that didn't matter.
When you answer questions on an insurance application, answers are given to the best of your knowledge. If insurers think you've deliberately withheld info, it would come down to what is reasonable.
If you buy a car 2nd hand, you would not be expected to know about a hidden or non obvious mods that had been done before purchase, if the seller didn't make them know to you. That could include a re map, or non standard wheels, stereo equipment etc. If on the other hand, your Vauxhall Corsa has gullwing doors, I don't think that excuse would fly.
If you buy a car 2nd hand, you would not be expected to know about a hidden or non obvious mods that had been done before purchase, if the seller didn't make them know to you. That could include a re map, or non standard wheels, stereo equipment etc. If on the other hand, your Vauxhall Corsa has gullwing doors, I don't think that excuse would fly.
eybic said:
They do class modifications as anything other than it left the factory with whether that be dealer fitted or owner fitted. If it didn't leave the factory with it then it's classed as a modification.
Many years ago when I was young, I bought a new Clio 182 Cup. It came out of the factory like that, but the insurance company could only think of it as a 182 with modifications - the mod being the 'Cup Pack'. Didn't really matter to me, but that's what they told me.Bert
eybic said:
They do class modifications as anything other than it left the factory with whether that be dealer fitted or owner fitted. If it didn't leave the factory with it then it's classed as a modification.
The Alpine unit was out of sight in the back but for ever after the car was listed as "enhanced sound system".
I err towards caution on this, and as my TVR is something of a "Triggers Broom"...
I supplied an extensive list to Classicline who noted it all down, but it didn't affect my premium, even performance mods like ACT Induction kit and plenum, non standard paint, wheels, shocks, clutch, brakes and decat manifolds.
I'd rather be upfront about it, than deal with the possible consequences after an incident.
I supplied an extensive list to Classicline who noted it all down, but it didn't affect my premium, even performance mods like ACT Induction kit and plenum, non standard paint, wheels, shocks, clutch, brakes and decat manifolds.
I'd rather be upfront about it, than deal with the possible consequences after an incident.
Dogwatch said:
eybic said:
They do class modifications as anything other than it left the factory with whether that be dealer fitted or owner fitted. If it didn't leave the factory with it then it's classed as a modification.
The Alpine unit was out of sight in the back but for ever after the car was listed as "enhanced sound system".
Echo66 said:
Same here with my Exige S2. Two stage sports exhaust, induction & uprated supercharger as well as the two engine upgrade squirts via the ECM - all from the factory so never declared them.
Presumably that was part of the spec you insured up front then? Either in the model name (Lotus Exige S2 Spunktakular) or model name plus options (Lotus Exige S2 Ordinaire plus Squirty Upgrade Pack)?Bert
So said:
Insurers request that all mods are disclosed. However, how far does that go?
Most Insurers ask the question via a very specific phrase along the lines of:"Has the vehicle been modified from the manufacturers standard vehicle specification?"
So if we take a Ford Fiesta 1.1 Popular in flat white with zero options that is the "standard vehicle specification" for that model/trim level.
Add dealer fit/aftermarket alloy wheels to it and that is a modification from the "standard vehicle specification".
Add floor mats to it and that is too a modification from the "standard vehicle specification", but there is a level at which most people wouldn't inform an Insurer.
With stickers there can be levels too:
"One Life, Live It" is unlikely to attract much Insurer interest.
"Alpine, Koni, Brembo, etc" stickered on the car would elicit more interest from the criminal fraternity and an Insurer would want to know.
I am about to renew all tyres as they near minimum. I have also decided to go down from 225/40 and 255/35 19” to 225/45 and 255/40 18”. Both specified on the door tyre label, and all manufacturer supplied parts. My insurance says I must notify of modifications, so perhaps I had better tell them!
vikingaero said:
Most Insurers ask the question via a very specific phrase along the lines of:
"Has the vehicle been modified from the manufacturers standard vehicle specification?"
So if we take a Ford Fiesta 1.1 Popular in flat white with zero options that is the "standard vehicle specification" for that model/trim level.
Add dealer fit/aftermarket alloy wheels to it and that is a modification from the "standard vehicle specification".
Add floor mats to it and that is too a modification from the "standard vehicle specification", but there is a level at which most people wouldn't inform an Insurer.
With stickers there can be levels too:
"One Life, Live It" is unlikely to attract much Insurer interest.
"Alpine, Koni, Brembo, etc" stickered on the car would elicit more interest from the criminal fraternity and an Insurer would want to know.
Problem with that is it's fine for the first owner, but years down the line the 8th registered keeper is unlikely to realise those dealer-fit wheels aren't standard spec. Unless like me you're sad enough to buy an original brochure for every car you own. "Has the vehicle been modified from the manufacturers standard vehicle specification?"
So if we take a Ford Fiesta 1.1 Popular in flat white with zero options that is the "standard vehicle specification" for that model/trim level.
Add dealer fit/aftermarket alloy wheels to it and that is a modification from the "standard vehicle specification".
Add floor mats to it and that is too a modification from the "standard vehicle specification", but there is a level at which most people wouldn't inform an Insurer.
With stickers there can be levels too:
"One Life, Live It" is unlikely to attract much Insurer interest.
"Alpine, Koni, Brembo, etc" stickered on the car would elicit more interest from the criminal fraternity and an Insurer would want to know.
A Winner Is You said:
vikingaero said:
Most Insurers ask the question via a very specific phrase along the lines of:
"Has the vehicle been modified from the manufacturers standard vehicle specification?"
So if we take a Ford Fiesta 1.1 Popular in flat white with zero options that is the "standard vehicle specification" for that model/trim level.
Add dealer fit/aftermarket alloy wheels to it and that is a modification from the "standard vehicle specification".
Add floor mats to it and that is too a modification from the "standard vehicle specification", but there is a level at which most people wouldn't inform an Insurer.
With stickers there can be levels too:
"One Life, Live It" is unlikely to attract much Insurer interest.
"Alpine, Koni, Brembo, etc" stickered on the car would elicit more interest from the criminal fraternity and an Insurer would want to know.
Problem with that is it's fine for the first owner, but years down the line the 8th registered keeper is unlikely to realise those dealer-fit wheels aren't standard spec. Unless like me you're sad enough to buy an original brochure for every car you own. "Has the vehicle been modified from the manufacturers standard vehicle specification?"
So if we take a Ford Fiesta 1.1 Popular in flat white with zero options that is the "standard vehicle specification" for that model/trim level.
Add dealer fit/aftermarket alloy wheels to it and that is a modification from the "standard vehicle specification".
Add floor mats to it and that is too a modification from the "standard vehicle specification", but there is a level at which most people wouldn't inform an Insurer.
With stickers there can be levels too:
"One Life, Live It" is unlikely to attract much Insurer interest.
"Alpine, Koni, Brembo, etc" stickered on the car would elicit more interest from the criminal fraternity and an Insurer would want to know.
ks. Someone has already posted about reasonableness. It’s as simple as that, what’s reasonable for you to be expected to know as the owner? Anything you’ve had done yourself obviously, plus anything on the outside realistically speaking. Some things the insurer won’t care about, such as dust caps, wiper blades. Stickers? A National Trust window sticker, neither here nor there; Hardcore Turbo Nutter plastered across the rear windscreen is likely to attract their attention.
None of this is about whether it’s more likely to get nicked, it’s about the attitude of the driver. If any of you are going to argue that as a general rule a chavved up Corsa is likely to be driven as well as a standard one then you’re dreaming.
BertBert said:
Echo66 said:
Same here with my Exige S2. Two stage sports exhaust, induction & uprated supercharger as well as the two engine upgrade squirts via the ECM - all from the factory so never declared them.
Presumably that was part of the spec you insured up front then? Either in the model name (Lotus Exige S2 Spunktakular) or model name plus options (Lotus Exige S2 Ordinaire plus Squirty Upgrade Pack)?Bert
I've never been asked anything like that on any motor, only the usual any mods beyond factory spec sort of thing.
On the flipside, if someone is buying second hand & is asked the mods Q how are they to know whether there are any none standard mods, esp if they're not a petrolhead? I have no idea whether my current drive has any non factory mods to engine, suspension, gearbox etc. If i can't see it, it wasn't mentioned on the sales invoice/told by the previous owner, how is a new owner supposed to know?
A few years ago on the porker forums there was some ins coy who got a their t1ts in a twist because a member who'd stuffed his during bad weather hadn't had winter tyres fitted as the handbook recommended. It took him ages to get paid out. Taking that approach, since when does recommended become absolutely required by an ins company.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff