Legal Advice regarding Car Sale
Discussion
BlackStang5point0 said:
I certainly didn't expect that outcome but thanks for the update OP. Just out of interest how could this have been prevented? Would it be as simple as stating you are not agreeing to the price until both parties have had the opportunity to table final offers.
How to prevent it? Easy - if you make a deal, honour it.
e-honda said:
eBay's non binding bid policy clearly mentions eBay motors classifieds ads.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rules-policie...
As you have said you cannot 'bid' on classifieds but
you can make an offer, which in this context is the same thing, it is covered in section 7 of the user agreement where it states.
for motor vehicles and real estate (property) listed in the Classified Ad format, a bid or offer is not binding, but expresses a buyer's serious interest in the item
Does that work both ways, as this case is the other way around? The buyer makes an offer - it may not be reagrded as binding, but in this case it was accepted by the seller and at that point it's been deemed that the seller was committed to selling.https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rules-policie...
As you have said you cannot 'bid' on classifieds but
you can make an offer, which in this context is the same thing, it is covered in section 7 of the user agreement where it states.
for motor vehicles and real estate (property) listed in the Classified Ad format, a bid or offer is not binding, but expresses a buyer's serious interest in the item
Jayne Redland said:
I'm no expert, but I think you took yourself for a ride, OP. Looks like some lawyers posted on the thread saying you were going to lose. You lost, and looks to me no use complaining about it, or trying to argue things here that you didn't try in court or which you tried but didn't work.
Sorry if I came across as complaining or arguing, that wasn't my intention. I was just updating the thread to let people know the outcome. The case is over and I've moved on.Sheepshanks said:
Does that work both ways, as this case is the other way around? The buyer makes an offer - it may not be reagrded as binding, but in this case it was accepted by the seller and at that point it's been deemed that the seller was committed to selling.
For there to be a contract there has to be the following;- an offer and acceptance.
- consideration to be exchanged
- be legal (ie a drugs deal is not a legal contract)
- be an intent to enter a legal relationship.
In this instance to be they (buyer and seller) met these tests in the following way;
- buyer said I’ll give you £x which seller said yes to.
- the buyer was going to pay the vendor, the vendor was going to give the car to the buyer.
- it’s perfectly legal to buy/sell a car you own (assuming the vendor owns the car he’s selling)
- I’d the vendor gave the buyer the car but the buyer then didn’t pay would the vendor believe he could take the buyer to court to get his money? Likewise if the buyer paid his money but the vendor didn’t give him the car would he? Both would say yes therefore both have the intent to create a legal relationship.
If you want to prevent form getting into this position it’s quite simple “don’t accept the offer” or if you do honour the contract you’ve made.
Marcellus said:
For there to be a contract there has to be the following;
- an offer and acceptance.
- consideration to be exchanged
- be legal (ie a drugs deal is not a legal contract)
- be an intent to enter a legal relationship.
In this instance to be they (buyer and seller) met these tests in the following way;
- buyer said I’ll give you £x which seller said yes to.
- the buyer was going to pay the vendor, the vendor was going to give the car to the buyer.
- it’s perfectly legal to buy/sell a car you own (assuming the vendor owns the car he’s selling)
- I’d the vendor gave the buyer the car but the buyer then didn’t pay would the vendor believe he could take the buyer to court to get his money? Likewise if the buyer paid his money but the vendor didn’t give him the car would he? Both would say yes therefore both have the intent to create a legal relationship.
If you want to prevent form getting into this position it’s quite simple “don’t accept the offer” or if you do honour the contract you’ve made.
There's a lot of "if's" in that statement. The seller didn't give the buyer money for the car, the buyer didn't pay any money at all. What you are saying is exactly what the court said. By agreeing the price for the car, there was an intent to enter into a contract.- an offer and acceptance.
- consideration to be exchanged
- be legal (ie a drugs deal is not a legal contract)
- be an intent to enter a legal relationship.
In this instance to be they (buyer and seller) met these tests in the following way;
- buyer said I’ll give you £x which seller said yes to.
- the buyer was going to pay the vendor, the vendor was going to give the car to the buyer.
- it’s perfectly legal to buy/sell a car you own (assuming the vendor owns the car he’s selling)
- I’d the vendor gave the buyer the car but the buyer then didn’t pay would the vendor believe he could take the buyer to court to get his money? Likewise if the buyer paid his money but the vendor didn’t give him the car would he? Both would say yes therefore both have the intent to create a legal relationship.
If you want to prevent form getting into this position it’s quite simple “don’t accept the offer” or if you do honour the contract you’ve made.
So, is intent sufficient in UK law? If I buy a hot girl a drink with an intent to hump her, is that rape?
Edited by cs174 on Saturday 12th June 20:13
Edited by cs174 on Saturday 12th June 20:17
cs174 said:
The car was advertised on eBay. The claimant came to view and offered to buy out with eBay.
Yes but was it advertised as a classifieds listing or an auction.Classifieds the buyer contacts the seller outside of eBay and finalize the sale that is how they work.
eBay auctions are meant to be completed through the eBay platform.
cs174 said:
Marcellus said:
For there to be a contract there has to be the following;
- an offer and acceptance.
- consideration to be exchanged
- be legal (ie a drugs deal is not a legal contract)
- be an intent to enter a legal relationship.
In this instance to be they (buyer and seller) met these tests in the following way;
- buyer said I’ll give you £x which seller said yes to.
- the buyer was going to pay the vendor, the vendor was going to give the car to the buyer.
- it’s perfectly legal to buy/sell a car you own (assuming the vendor owns the car he’s selling)
- I’d the vendor gave the buyer the car but the buyer then didn’t pay would the vendor believe he could take the buyer to court to get his money? Likewise if the buyer paid his money but the vendor didn’t give him the car would he? Both would say yes therefore both have the intent to create a legal relationship.
If you want to prevent form getting into this position it’s quite simple “don’t accept the offer” or if you do honour the contract you’ve made.
There's a lot of "if's" in that statement. The seller didn't give the buyer money for the car, the buyer didn't pay any money at all. What you are saying is exactly what the court said. By agreeing the price for the car, there was an intent to enter into a contract.- an offer and acceptance.
- consideration to be exchanged
- be legal (ie a drugs deal is not a legal contract)
- be an intent to enter a legal relationship.
In this instance to be they (buyer and seller) met these tests in the following way;
- buyer said I’ll give you £x which seller said yes to.
- the buyer was going to pay the vendor, the vendor was going to give the car to the buyer.
- it’s perfectly legal to buy/sell a car you own (assuming the vendor owns the car he’s selling)
- I’d the vendor gave the buyer the car but the buyer then didn’t pay would the vendor believe he could take the buyer to court to get his money? Likewise if the buyer paid his money but the vendor didn’t give him the car would he? Both would say yes therefore both have the intent to create a legal relationship.
If you want to prevent form getting into this position it’s quite simple “don’t accept the offer” or if you do honour the contract you’ve made.
So, is intent sufficient in UK law? If I buy a hot girl a drink with an intent to hump her, is that rape?
Edited by cs174 on Saturday 12th June 20:13
Edited by cs174 on Saturday 12th June 20:17
There were 2 ifs which could have been an either/or;
Either don’t accept the buyers offer or honour the contract you made.
Consideration doesn’t have to be exchanged at the point of contract being formed just to be exchanged at some point in the future.
The Spruce Goose said:
makes no difference as pointed out.
It does make a difference, if it was an eBay classifieds ad, the OP followed eBay's terms and conditions by treating the offer as non binding with no intention to form legal relations, the claimant violated them by claiming his offer was intended to form legal relations.e-honda said:
It does make a difference, if it was an eBay classifieds ad, the OP followed eBay's terms and conditions by treating the offer as non binding with no intention to form legal relations, the claimant violated them by claiming his offer was intended to form legal relations.
lol, again Ebay can say whatever they want, it doesn't circumvent the statutory legislation. e-honda said:
The Spruce Goose said:
makes no difference as pointed out.
It does make a difference, if it was an eBay classifieds ad, the OP followed eBay's terms and conditions by treating the offer as non binding with no intention to form legal relations, the claimant violated them by claiming his offer was intended to form legal relations.vaud said:
cs174 said:
The legal fees were around £1.3k at the time it was transferred to the Claimants local court, then my solicitor sent a large bill out of the blue. I totally agree my solicitor has taken me for a ride.
You may be able to reject as fees should be outlined in writing during the initial engagement.IANAL.
The Spruce Goose said:
lol, again Ebay can say whatever they want, it doesn't circumvent the statutory legislation.
What statutory regulation do you think prevents 2 people from making an agreement that they will agree to the sale of a car in a few days but will not enter a contract today?Why are you so convinced eBay's terms and conditions are deficient. There are nearly 200 thousand listing for cars on the classifieds right now, at £20 a pop that is £4m a month in revenue, enough to spend a bit of money ensuring their terms and conditions do what they are meant to do.
Amateurish said:
The agreement was made on WhatsApp. eBay was irrelevant.
People keep saying this but they never explain why.eBay classifieds are done via contact outside of eBay, that is by design.
eBay's terms and conditions quite clearly state they do apply to eBay motors classifieds.
e-honda said:
Amateurish said:
The agreement was made on WhatsApp. eBay was irrelevant.
People keep saying this but they never explain why.eBay classifieds are done via contact outside of eBay, that is by design.
eBay's terms and conditions quite clearly state they do apply to eBay motors classifieds.
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