Legal Advice regarding Car Sale

[Red 4]

Mexman said:

Red 4 said:

Err, it's a bit late for that.

Try to keep up.

Err no, the OP still owns it,
Anything could happen between now and the "sale"
Keep up at the back.

The car was sold 3 months ago.

This is really quite a simple fact to get your head around.

If you can't manage that, I'm with integroo - stick to selling second hand cars rather than offering legal advice on the internet.

You look a bit silly.

[Integroo]

Mexman said:

My legislation is totally different to a private eBay sale.
I'm not asking you to buy from me, am I?

It isn't totally different. It's the same, except with added consumer protections.

[Mexman]

Red 4 said:

The car was sold 3 months ago.

This is really quite a simple fact to get your head around.

If you can't manage that, I'm with integroo - stick to selling second hand cars rather than offering legal advice on the internet.

You look a bit silly.

How can you put a value on "loss of bargain"?
Its nonsense.

[Vaud]

Mexman said:

How can you put a value on "loss of bargain"?
Its nonsense.

You can and that is why it is a "thing" in law.

I posted on page 1 (I am not a lawyer)

Vaud said:

OK, try a different scenario.

You are selling me your lawnmower. It's a reasonable deal.
We shake hands - or even sign a contract - agreeing to pay you £600. I leave to get the money.

You then tell me you've had a better offer and try to get more money from me. I decline.

• Might I have incurred some costs?
• What if the closest deal I can then find for this mower is £800?
• Do I suck up the £200 difference because you broke the contract?

In this case we had a contract (oral or written) and you are in breach, not me.

[Integroo]

Mexman said:

How can you put a value on "loss of bargain"?
Its nonsense.

Read s51 soga, it tells you.

Plus costs incurred e.g. pulling the trigger on a finance agreement

[Marcellus]

Mexman said:

How can you put a value on "loss of bargain"?

and that's your first useful contribution to this topic and a very pertinent question.

[ging84]

Vaud said:

The ebay listing had expired, according to the first post, so the subsequent communications would not be party to that?
Anyhow, the comms after the listing finished culminated an exchange of comms that would appear to have formed a contract, so I would suggest that any reference to ebay is a red herring. IANAL.

What does that mean that the communication would not be party to it.
An agreent was reached with absolutely no discussion about terms. Why would the default position not be to fall back to the terms of the original advert.

[Integroo]

ging84 said:

What does that mean that the communication would not be party to it.
An agreent was reached with absolutely no discussion about terms. Why would the default position not be to fall back to the terms of the original advert.

You are barking up the wrong tree here. Even if they did apply, its irrelevant - offers may not be binding, but if you accept one you make it binding.

[Marcellus]

ging84 said:

Vaud said:

The ebay listing had expired, according to the first post, so the subsequent communications would not be party to that?
Anyhow, the comms after the listing finished culminated an exchange of comms that would appear to have formed a contract, so I would suggest that any reference to ebay is a red herring. IANAL.

What does that mean that the communication would not be party to it.
An agreent was reached with absolutely no discussion about terms. Why would the default position not be to fall back to the terms of the original advert.

But terms were discussed and accepted (see Whatsapp transcript)

[ging84]

Integroo said:

You are barking up the wrong tree here. Even if they did apply, its irrelevant - offers may not be binding, but if you accept one you make it binding.

That just makes no sense.
How can a non binding offer be made binding?

[Integroo]

ging84 said:

That just makes no sense.
How can a non binding offer be made binding?

By accepting it...

[Red 4]

Integroo said:

ging84 said:

That just makes no sense.
How can a non binding offer be made binding?

By accepting it...

Offer > accept = binding.

Non delivery of goods = damages (potentially).

[nikaiyo2]

I always thought suing for Loss of Bargain was one of those things best avoided, unless the sums were significant. As in millions between companies etc.

In effect it’s litigating over principle?

[meatballs]

Integroo said:

Why wouldn't it be?

Contracts generally do not have to be in any particular form, notably they do not generally have to be in writing (subject to certain exceptions, for example for land). Contracts can be formed orally, or by e-mail, or may be implied from the conduct of the parties, or may be formed by clicking a button to accept terms and conditions on a website. The value of the contract is meaningless - it could be for £10,000,000.

The key elements for contract formation under English law are an offer and acceptance (tick, evidenced by WhatsApp), consideration (tick, a car in return for money), intention to create legal relations (i.e. a meeting of minds)(tick, evidenced by WhatsApp) and certainty of terms (apparently tick, contract being buyer will buy car for 26,500 and seller will sell car for 26,500).

Obviously it is for a court to decide whether there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate that the above elements exist but there is certainly nothing preventing a contract being formed and evidenced by way of WhatsApp messages.

Could you say that nearly all car deals are renegotiated following an inspection/test drive that the certainty of terms isn't present?

[ging84]

Red 4 said:

Offer > accept = binding.

Non delivery of goods = damages (potentially).

So you are saying that eBay's terms are meaningless and you cannot make an offer that is constructed as expressing a serious interest in something and not be bound by someone accepting it?

[NewUsername]

Holy cow, I wouldn’t buy a car from the frustrated second hand tat salesman. An apt demonstration of the lack of scruples of that type!

[Integroo]

meatballs said:

Could you say that nearly all car deals are renegotiated following an inspection/test drive that the certainty of terms isn't present?

Maybe - not familiar with the case law. However, Buyer A had already inspected which weakens that argument.

[Jasandjules]

Mexman said:

Why not.....
Customers do it to me all the bloody time.
"Changed my mind"
"Hold it for me, I definitely want it"
Never to be heard from again.
No one can force someone to sell their car if they don't want to.
Tell the buyers, its now removed from sale, change of heart, whatever, I does not matter.
This thread is all boo locks.

Actually, if the car was rare (let us say a Griffith with a supremely rare colour combo) which would not be available in the market, specific performance could be ordered by a court, that is an order to sell the vehicle to Buyer A. That being said I do not believe that is the subject of the claim, but I just though I would note your mistake. Obviously a Ford Fiesta in blue or somesuch which is easily replaced would not be the subject of specific performance.

[Integroo]

ging84 said:

So you are saying that eBay's terms are meaningless and you cannot make an offer that is constructed as expressing a serious interest in something and not be bound by someone accepting it?

I am almost certain eBay's terms say that bids on an eBay AUCTION are not binding. Classified sales are completed outside of eBay.

[kestral]

nikaiyo2 said:

I always thought suing for Loss of Bargain was one of those things best avoided, unless the sums were significant. As in millions between companies etc.

In effect it’s litigating over principle?

No not at all. As long as the loss can be quantified. Just do a small claim on line as I did with my ebay case.

And has been done in this case to the OP.

More people need to do it ebay is rife with people failing to sell because the don't get the price they want at auction. Ebay warns them auctions are binding (with some limitation).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_v_Davies case law.