Legal Advice regarding Car Sale

Legal Advice regarding Car Sale

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Discussion

kestral

1,726 posts

206 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
"I received an offer via WhatsApp from Buyer A "that I agreed to"

You agreed and then reneged.

You should not have breached the contract. Morally wrong and breach of contract. The damages are persuable as "loss of bargin" A proper legal definition.

I sued someone on ebay who renaged on a sale and won. The defendant went to Citizens Advice who told him "you areed to sell if you reneg and damages are sort you are liable"

Quite rightly.

Vaud

50,288 posts

154 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Bill said:
So how do people get away with gazumping in a house purchase? Contracts haven't been signed but the agreement to buy is a similar level to the OP's WhatsApp conversation.
House sales are treated differently under the law. You can legally gazzump until exchange, IIRC (in England and Wales)

Christmassss

650 posts

88 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
I am by no means an expert, but Loss of bargain = Legal rule that damages paid to the aggrieved party in a breach of contract case should be sufficient in amount to put that party in a position it would have been had the breach not occurred.

As far as I can work out, Buyer A hasn't actually lost any money, didn't put down a deposit, book inspections etc etc. So what would he need to be financially compensated for?

ralphrj

3,508 posts

190 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Vaud said:
Bill said:
So how do people get away with gazumping in a house purchase? Contracts haven't been signed but the agreement to buy is a similar level to the OP's WhatsApp conversation.
House sales are treated differently under the law. You can legally gazzump until exchange, IIRC (in England and Wales)
^This. Sales of property must be in writing.



Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Fair enough.

I'm fascinated to know where he thinks the £2k loss comes from if the price difference was £1k.

ShyTallKnight

2,207 posts

212 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Vaud said:
OK, try a different scenario.

You are selling me your lawnmower. It's a reasonable deal.
We shake hands - or even sign a contract - agreeing to pay you £600. I leave to get the money.

You then tell me you've had a better offer and try to get more money from me. I decline.

  • Might I have incurred some costs?
  • What if the closest deal I can then find for this mower is £800?
  • Do I suck up the £200 difference because you broke the contract?
in this case we had a contract (oral or written) and you are in breach, not me.

As I said, I'm not a lawyer but I guess it will depend if the acceptance by text of the initial offer is sufficient for the contract to be considered complete (subject to payment).

I'm not a lawyer. smile
I can understand Buyer A being a bit brassed off but to be fair to the OP he does sound like he's given Buyer A every opportunity to make a counter offer and secure the vehicle. Buyer B was the first to commit to the purchase by paying a deposit and in my book the first one to show the reddies and all that.

What I feel is outrageous is the claim of 2k in 'damages'.

I'm not a lawyer either but the world has gone mad if this sort of thing is allowed to happen.

lost in espace

6,136 posts

206 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Have you received a final letter of intent to take action, if not he has not followed protocol. I would offer a nominal amount to make him go away, if this ends up in court it will look very good on you.

Starfighter

4,908 posts

177 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Could it be that Buyer A has another car lined up as that costs £2k more that the OP’s?

Vaud

50,288 posts

154 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
ShyTallKnight said:
I can understand Buyer A being a bit brassed off but to be fair to the OP he does sound like he's given Buyer A every opportunity to make a counter offer and secure the vehicle. Buyer B was the first to commit to the purchase by paying a deposit and in my book the first one to show the reddies and all that.

What I feel is outrageous is the claim of 2k in 'damages'.

I'm not a lawyer either but the world has gone mad if this sort of thing is allowed to happen.
Depends. Maybe on agreeing the contract he clicked to agree his finance agreement. Maybe he is a dealer with a buyer lined up. Maybe the nearest vehicle to this spec is £2k more.

The details will be disclosed as part of his evidence?

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
ShyTallKnight said:
I can understand Buyer A being a bit brassed off but to be fair to the OP he does sound like he's given Buyer A every opportunity to make a counter offer and secure the vehicle. Buyer B was the first to commit to the purchase by paying a deposit and in my book the first one to show the reddies and all that.

What I feel is outrageous is the claim of 2k in 'damages'.

I'm not a lawyer either but the world has gone mad if this sort of thing is allowed to happen.
Shame your book doesn't align with contract law - which exists for a reason. People should stand by their bargains.

The buyer does need to prove financial loss to be entitled to damages - however, without the facts, we do not know whether he has suffered financial loss. It is not inconceivable that he has.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
largespiced said:
You can now delete messages on whatsapp for both parties...I would try doing that a bit quickly!
You do understand that the deliberate destruction of evidence is a criminal offence right? IN this case evidence of an agreement which could be used in Court.

ETA - Buyer A has an agreed contract for the purchase of a Griffith. You are of course quite welcome to laugh it off etc but that is why we have contract law. If you did not want to accept his offer, you should not have done so. Not saying he will win nor recover 2k but he has grounds to bring a breach of contract claim....


Edited by Jasandjules on Tuesday 20th August 18:51

tinnitusjosh

324 posts

71 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
IAAL but IANYL etc

on these facts i would say 100% that OP has formed a contract and then breached it. Buyer A will presumably be able to evidence the contract by producing the WhatsApp messages.

Buyer A's damages should be an amount sufficient to put him in the position he would have been but for the breach. Had OP performed the contract, Buyer A would be £26,500 down, but with a new TVR. If Buyer A is unable to source an equivalent spec / condition TVR for £26,500 (or less), he has suffered a loss. If the only other same spec / condition TVR costs £28,500, then Buyer A is £2,000 out of pocket and is generally entitled to recover that loss from the seller as a matter of law and, frankly, natural justice.

Reading all the PHers telling OP otherwise has been the highlight of my day, so thanks for that smile

Can't be 100% sure, but I think this scenario is literally unit one of most contract law textbooks...


Butter Face

30,191 posts

159 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
tinnitusjosh said:
IAAL but IANYL etc

on these facts i would say 100% that OP has formed a contract and then breached it. Buyer A will presumably be able to evidence the contract by producing the WhatsApp messages.

Buyer A's damages should be an amount sufficient to put him in the position he would have been but for the breach. Had OP performed the contract, Buyer A would be £26,500 down, but with a new TVR. If Buyer A is unable to source an equivalent spec / condition TVR for £26,500 (or less), he has suffered a loss. If the only other same spec / condition TVR costs £28,500, then Buyer A is £2,000 out of pocket and is generally entitled to recover that loss from the seller as a matter of law and, frankly, natural justice.

Reading all the PHers telling OP otherwise has been the highlight of my day, so thanks for that smile

Can't be 100% sure, but I think this scenario is literally unit one of most contract law textbooks...
Out of interest, what would be the case if the buyer is a car dealer who is essentially claiming for loss of profit now that he can’t sell the car?

Vaud

50,288 posts

154 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
tinnitusjosh said:
IAAL but IANYL etc

on these facts i would say 100% that OP has formed a contract and then breached it. Buyer A will presumably be able to evidence the contract by producing the WhatsApp messages.

Buyer A's damages should be an amount sufficient to put him in the position he would have been but for the breach. Had OP performed the contract, Buyer A would be £26,500 down, but with a new TVR. If Buyer A is unable to source an equivalent spec / condition TVR for £26,500 (or less), he has suffered a loss. If the only other same spec / condition TVR costs £28,500, then Buyer A is £2,000 out of pocket and is generally entitled to recover that loss from the seller as a matter of law and, frankly, natural justice.

Reading all the PHers telling OP otherwise has been the highlight of my day, so thanks for that smile

Can't be 100% sure, but I think this scenario is literally unit one of most contract law textbooks...
I am glad that although IANAL I was on the right track with my advice...

Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
tinnitusjosh said:
natural justice.
Behave! hehe

Integroo

11,574 posts

84 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
tinnitusjosh said:
IAAL but IANYL etc

on these facts i would say 100% that OP has formed a contract and then breached it. Buyer A will presumably be able to evidence the contract by producing the WhatsApp messages.

Buyer A's damages should be an amount sufficient to put him in the position he would have been but for the breach. Had OP performed the contract, Buyer A would be £26,500 down, but with a new TVR. If Buyer A is unable to source an equivalent spec / condition TVR for £26,500 (or less), he has suffered a loss. If the only other same spec / condition TVR costs £28,500, then Buyer A is £2,000 out of pocket and is generally entitled to recover that loss from the seller as a matter of law and, frankly, natural justice.

Reading all the PHers telling OP otherwise has been the highlight of my day, so thanks for that smile

Can't be 100% sure, but I think this scenario is literally unit one of most contract law textbooks...
IAAL but IANYL etc and agree.

tinnitusjosh

324 posts

71 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
Out of interest, what would be the case if the buyer is a car dealer who is essentially claiming for loss of profit now that he can’t sell the car?
very difficult to claim except in limited number of scenarios including, for example, where the buyer had told the seller before the contract was concluded that he was going to flip it for a profit and already had a committed buyer lined up

cs174

Original Poster:

1,148 posts

219 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Thanks for all the replies. I now have a much better understanding of the situation.

In terms of the evidence provided by Buyer A to support the Online Civil Money Claim, this includes a copy of the WhatsApp messages, copies of the letters he previously sent, photo of my initial advert, photos of the car sent to him by WhatsApp prior to sale and, importantly, printout of similar cars advertised for sale to support Buyer A's valuation of the car.

It does not appear that Buyer A has actually purchased a car of similar age, mileage, condition etc. for £28,500. He is only referring to adverts of similar cars which shows the asking price. There is also no mention of him being a trader with another purchaser ready to buy. The claim does not include any other evidence to support the 'loss of bargain' other than essentially the WhatsApp messages and the adverts of similar cars.

Would Buyer A have had to actually purchase a similar car for £28,500 to have incurred a loss of £2000?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Did A know about B?

cs174

Original Poster:

1,148 posts

219 months

Tuesday 20th August 2019
quotequote all
Thesprucegoose said:
Did A know about B?
Yes, I told him about the other offer