Grace Millane

[Green1man]

BlackTails said:

It works on a more subtle level too. It shows her as a nice, ordinary girl having a nice, fun night out, blissfully unaware that it will be her last. It engenders sympathy. And it shows him as a nice ordinary guy, also having a fun night out, concealing from her all the while what the prosecution say he was going to do. In other words, it paints him as a stone cold psychopathic killer.

It's a very effective tactic.

But it doesn’t contradict his story though. I’m just an ordinary guy out on a ordinary date doing typical things that you would on a date, then a sex game went horrendously wrong!

Surely its the events after the ‘murder’ that paint the damning picture?

[Burwood]

Green1man said:

BlackTails said:

It works on a more subtle level too. It shows her as a nice, ordinary girl having a nice, fun night out, blissfully unaware that it will be her last. It engenders sympathy. And it shows him as a nice ordinary guy, also having a fun night out, concealing from her all the while what the prosecution say he was going to do. In other words, it paints him as a stone cold psychopathic killer.

It's a very effective tactic.

But it doesn’t contradict his story though. I’m just an ordinary guy out on a ordinary date doing typical things that you would on a date, then a sex game went horrendously wrong!

Surely its the events after the ‘murder’ that paint the damning picture?

Doesn't contradict his story. He was caught in a lie. One of many. You'll have to make up your own mind as you won't get the truth from this guy.

[Graveworm]

Green1man said:

But it doesn’t contradict his story though. I’m just an ordinary guy out on a ordinary date doing typical things that you would on a date, then a sex game went horrendously wrong!

Surely its the events after the ‘murder’ that paint the damning picture?

No idea how similar the UK is to NZ but this is prosecution material that will probably be used by the defence... This is a couple about to engage in a consensual act.
Best tactic is for the prosecution to introduce it with their emphasis first.

[A1VDY]

BlackWidow13 said:

lyonspride said:

The whole thing is very sad, yet another backpacker from a middle class background, who has swallowed the blue pill and naively gone off around the world without a care.

When is this going to stop? How many more need to die?

Bizarre post.

The most bizarre part is the 'middle class' bit.
How is that possibly defined in 2019??

[lyonspride]

A1VDY said:

BlackWidow13 said:

lyonspride said:

The whole thing is very sad, yet another backpacker from a middle class background, who has swallowed the blue pill and naively gone off around the world without a care.

When is this going to stop? How many more need to die?

Bizarre post.

The most bizarre part is the 'middle class' bit.
How is that possibly defined in 2019??

Yeah I agree with that, social class is bks, because you can buy it with enough credit cards.

What my post refers to is those from families of genuine means, usually living out in small villages, with a predominately white population, with low crime rates and where every child has a pony. These kids live sheltered lives, where poor people, people of colour, minorities, etc etc are a "curiosity". They then head off to university with large sums of money, move into a higher standard of student accommodation and spend their days at coffee shops and high end foreign food restaurants cooking up plans to join "extinction rebellion" so they can have a bit of dance in the street and disrupt the "plebs" who need to catch a train to work.

Long story short, they're naive and they think the whole world loves them and would never hurt them, so they go off and put themselves at risk. Most of them make it back, but too many (1 is too many) end up meeting a horrific end, be that getting beheaded in Morocco, drowning off the coast of some random island, or getting picked up by some psycho killer on a dating app.

[anonymous-user]

Or these made up stereotypes could stay in the UK and be run over by a bus or killed by a careless doctor. They could choose to live life pinioned by fear of even the slightest risk. They could remain incurious, untravelled, and inexperienced. Thus in time they would qualify to become why oh why oh why pub ranters on PH.

[lyonspride]

Breadvan72 said:

Or these made up stereotypes could stay in the UK and be run over by a bus or killed by a careless doctor. They could choose to live life pinioned by fear of even the slightest risk. They could remain incurious, untravelled, and inexperienced. Thus in time they would qualify to become why oh why oh why pub ranters on PH.

There is the irony, they don't become experienced, their travels just (if not kill them) reinforce their fluffy rainbows view of the world, "and oh look there's a poor person, let's get a selfie, that'll make them feel better".

Don't even get me started on voluntourism........... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1526430/Gap-year-...

[Greshamst]

Getting back to the actual case...

The guy seems to be an absolute sociopath in terms of his lies and story...

Says she must have passed out from asking to be choked, and then says he didn’t notice her body lay on the floor in his room...
But also admits to getting cleaning products to cleanup the blood... what blood if he just lightly choked her?

Says he got so drunk he was too hungover to go into work.
But also went on another tinder date the next day...

I really feel sorry for the parents. Having to hear the man who murdered your daughter tell what are most likely lies, that she was asking to be choked and requesting rough sex.

[lyonspride]

Greshamst said:

Getting back to the actual case...
But also admits to getting cleaning products to cleanup the blood... what blood if he just lightly choked her?

Seriously? It's obvious that he couldn't get a big enough suitcase......

[Barry Homo]

Says he didn't notice? He took pics and had a wk. The guys a nutcase. Definitely would have killed again if not caught imho.

[lyonspride]

Barry Homo said:

Says he didn't notice? He took pics and had a wk. The guys a nutcase. Definitely would have killed again if not caught imho.

Could have thought she'd passed out..... Been there, first GF smacked her head on a radiator, out cold nearly 20 minutes, I did at least check for a pulse though, as i'm from a generation that still remembers basic first aid.

It's what he did once he knew she was dead that's the real issue here. He could have just called the emergency services, but he chose instead to get all choppy choppy about it.

[Burwood]

lyonspride said:

Barry Homo said:

Says he didn't notice? He took pics and had a wk. The guys a nutcase. Definitely would have killed again if not caught imho.

Could have thought she'd passed out..... Been there, first GF smacked her head on a radiator, out cold nearly 20 minutes, I did at least check for a pulse though, as i'm from a generation that still remembers basic first aid.

It's what he did once he knew she was dead that's the real issue here. He could have just called the emergency services, but he chose instead to get all choppy choppy about it.

He's a dangerous psychopath who chose his foreign/travelling victim thinking she wouldn't be missed for a few days. The carpet was 'soaked' in blood which proves it was a lot more than a bit of rough play. He brutally murdered this girl and afterwards he watched porn and researched ways of disposing of his victim. He will get an all life sentence.

[singlecoil]

AIUI she went, after an acquaintance best measured in minutes, to this man's hotel room. This strikes me as inherently risky behaviour, but is it commonplace these days? I ask as I have been happily married for over thirty years, and know little about how such things work now.

[Burwood]

singlecoil said:

AIUI she went, after an acquaintance best measured in minutes, to this man's hotel room. This strikes me as inherently risky behaviour, but is it commonplace these days? I ask as I have been happily married for over thirty years, and know little about how such things work now.

people meet people (strangers) in public places all the time. Alcohol certainly dulls your inhibitions. It wasn't a hotel per se, he lived there. He could have lured her back in a number of ways. She could have been over powered the minute they got there. Is travelling solo across the world risky. I wouldn't want my daughter doing it but it's common enough.

You can see from the video footage that the accused is tall and broad. He looks like a very big guy.

[lyonspride]

Burwood said:

lyonspride said:

Barry Homo said:

Says he didn't notice? He took pics and had a wk. The guys a nutcase. Definitely would have killed again if not caught imho.

Could have thought she'd passed out..... Been there, first GF smacked her head on a radiator, out cold nearly 20 minutes, I did at least check for a pulse though, as i'm from a generation that still remembers basic first aid.

It's what he did once he knew she was dead that's the real issue here. He could have just called the emergency services, but he chose instead to get all choppy choppy about it.

He's a dangerous psychopath who chose his foreign/travelling victim thinking she wouldn't be missed for a few days. The carpet was 'soaked' in blood which proves it was a lot more than a bit of rough play. He brutally murdered this girl and afterwards he watched porn and researched ways of disposing of his victim. He will get an all life sentence.

Doesn't strike me as very well planned, more of a panic. I think this would show it was not his intent from the beginning and that something did indeed go wrong.... That or he's extremely clever and knew he was going to get caught.

[Burwood]

lyonspride said:

Burwood said:

lyonspride said:

Barry Homo said:

Says he didn't notice? He took pics and had a wk. The guys a nutcase. Definitely would have killed again if not caught imho.

Could have thought she'd passed out..... Been there, first GF smacked her head on a radiator, out cold nearly 20 minutes, I did at least check for a pulse though, as i'm from a generation that still remembers basic first aid.

It's what he did once he knew she was dead that's the real issue here. He could have just called the emergency services, but he chose instead to get all choppy choppy about it.

He's a dangerous psychopath who chose his foreign/travelling victim thinking she wouldn't be missed for a few days. The carpet was 'soaked' in blood which proves it was a lot more than a bit of rough play. He brutally murdered this girl and afterwards he watched porn and researched ways of disposing of his victim. He will get an all life sentence.

Doesn't strike me as very well planned, more of a panic. I think this would show it was not his intent from the beginning and that something did indeed go wrong.... That or he's extremely clever and knew he was going to get caught.

Someone who has such fantasies could have been triggered into a frenzied attack which he couldn't contain. The trauma and crime scene proves it is not a mistake. You don't soak carpets in blood by being a bit rough.

You won't ever get the truth. Just like the Pistorius case. What matters is they have their man and he will rot in prison

[lyonspride]

Burwood said:

Someone who has such fantasies could have been triggered into a frenzied attack which he couldn't contain. The trauma and crime scene proves it is not a mistake. You don't soak carpets in blood by being a bit rough.

You won't ever get the truth. Just like the Pistorius case. What matters is they have their man and he will rot in prison

No, but you do if your "partner" passes out, you go off to watch some porn thinking she's just going to wake up, come back to find she's dead, panic and get all choppy choppy.

I think the above is more likely close to what happened, but the media like to sensationalise things, and you're right we'll never know.

Edited by lyonspride on Friday 15th November 12:38

[Greshamst]

lyonspride said:

Greshamst said:

Getting back to the actual case...
But also admits to getting cleaning products to cleanup the blood... what blood if he just lightly choked her?

Seriously? It's obvious that he couldn't get a big enough suitcase......

The killer’s purchases and activities have been widely reported. No cutting implements were bought, no reports state the body was chopped up, and he is reported as saying he ‘contorted her body in to the suitcase’

[lyonspride]

Greshamst said:

lyonspride said:

Greshamst said:

Getting back to the actual case...
But also admits to getting cleaning products to cleanup the blood... what blood if he just lightly choked her?

Seriously? It's obvious that he couldn't get a big enough suitcase......

The killer’s purchases and activities have been widely reported. No cutting implements were bought, no reports state the body was chopped up, and he is reported as saying he ‘contorted her body in to the suitcase’

And yet...... Blood.

This is why I agree with what was said earlier, we'll never know.

[Barry Homo]

People bleed if you choke them hard enough IIRC.