Instrument cluster swap - legality?

Instrument cluster swap - legality?

Author
Discussion

TheInsanity1234

Original Poster:

740 posts

118 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
I've just bought a '60 Kia Picanto 1, and I want to swap over the instrument cluster from one with just a speedo and a huge fuel gauge to one with a rev counter.

Having done my research, it does appear that the mileage displayed on the odometer is stored within the instrument cluster, and not on the engine ECU.

It is likely that if I'm swapping the cluster that I'll be getting a used one from a breaker somewhere, so the odometer will have the mileage of the car that was broken up stored on it.

Will there be any legal issues with the odometer not displaying an accurate number for the mileage done by the car it's fitted to? I doubt I'll ever sell it on, it's £350 and a true shed to see me through the next few years.

steveo3002

10,493 posts

173 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
do what you like as long as youre not trying to pass it off as lower mileage , document it and inform any future buyers

TheInsanity1234

Original Poster:

740 posts

118 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
Ah, another question - would doing this be classed as a modification that I'd need to inform insurance about?

steveo3002 said:
do what you like as long as youre not trying to pass it off as lower mileage , document it and inform any future buyers
Thanks, that's what I thought. As I said, unlikely it'll ever get sold on, it'll be my daily for a few years and then when I upgrade my parents will probably take it off my hands as a dog car/shopping trolley.

steveo3002

10,493 posts

173 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
well some insurers claim a sticker is a mod

personally if its a factory fit part id not be calling them , but it up to you

TheInsanity1234

Original Poster:

740 posts

118 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
steveo3002 said:
well some insurers claim a sticker is a mod

personally if its a factory fit part id not be calling them , but it up to you
That's true. It will be a factory fit item, it's just not fitted to this particular specification. The only difference is the new cluster will have a rev counter. I want to keep it as OEM as possible as I don't particularly want a garish blue backlit pod poking out of the dashboard somewhere!

CAPP0

19,530 posts

202 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
Those 1.0 Picantos are a bugger to rev-match on a fast downshift if you don't have a rev counter tongue out

TheInsanity1234

Original Poster:

740 posts

118 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
CAPP0 said:
Those 1.0 Picantos are a bugger to rev-match on a fast downshift if you don't have a rev counter tongue out
hehe

Trust me, my motive not about speed and performance, a 1.0 Picanto has neither of those! I'm profoundly deaf and can't really shift by sound, so I like to have the visual aid of the rev counter to aid mechanical sympathy, as otherwise I'd probably just be relying on the synchromesh to match the engine speed and it'd just be a jerky old time for all passengers!

After a few months of driving a car daily I do settle into it and the rev counter is no longer a necessity, but for those first few months while I'm still learning where the torque peak is and how much flexibility do I have in gear, it is useful to know whereabouts in the rev range the engine is!

BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
Putting a rev counter on a model of car normally without one is definitely going to be a risk factor biggrin
I'd make sure your insurance increase doesn't make it uneconomic!

Mind you, if you are replacing a broken one with whatever you can find in a scrappy, perhaps it's not risk enhancing!

Bert

Cyberprog

2,186 posts

182 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
Could you not buy a plug in ODB gague which may report the engine RPM to you?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Moonyeu-Multi-Function-Di...

A1VDY

3,575 posts

126 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
I've done it a few times I've had trade ins with faulty instrument clusters. All I do is make a note of the original mileage and note the mileage on the cluster when it goes in. Nothing illegal about it at all.

mac96

3,715 posts

142 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
Cyberprog said:
Could you not buy a plug in ODB gague which may report the engine RPM to you?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Moonyeu-Multi-Function-Di...
I may be worrying about nothing, but I wouldn't plug anything unbranded (or at least just a brand no ones's heard of) like this into my car's OBD port. I know it is supposed to draw data FROM the car, but whose to say it is not downloading crap into the car's systems?

Don't fancy the chances of getting some Chinese factory to pay if they do damage.

Chiswickboy

549 posts

187 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
Will the new instrument cluster be a straight plug in with existing wiring for the rev counter or will it need additional wiring and a sender? i.e. need to be modified.


TheInsanity1234

Original Poster:

740 posts

118 months

Friday 29th November 2019
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Putting a rev counter on a model of car normally without one is definitely going to be a risk factor biggrin
I'd make sure your insurance increase doesn't make it uneconomic!

Mind you, if you are replacing a broken one with whatever you can find in a scrappy, perhaps it's not risk enhancing!

Bert
I am quite clumsy, so it is feasible I'll break it whilst just having a quick peek behind it to figure out what the wiring looks like, and then have to buy a replacement anyway!

Cyberprog said:
Could you not buy a plug in ODB gague which may report the engine RPM to you?
Not entirely sure the car has an ODB port... I've only had a cursory glance around it, but I'll be able to take a more thorough look tomorrow!

Chiswickboy said:
Will the new instrument cluster be a straight plug in with existing wiring for the rev counter or will it need additional wiring and a sender? i.e. need to be modified.
I'm hoping that it should be a straightforward plug-and-play type situation, as the car does have an ECU and a wiring loom, so wouldn't make sense to have an entirely different loom when the instrument cluster changes with the trim level!

imck

778 posts

106 months

Saturday 30th November 2019
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I have a Picanto Workshop Manual of sorts. Can't remember why !!
No wiring diagrams though. Only connector assignments.

2 Connectors going to the Cluster. One has the Tacho Signal.

Has references to OBD2 Errors
Possible Port Location https://www.outilsobdfacile.com/location-plug-conn...

LayZ

1,619 posts

241 months

Saturday 30th November 2019
quotequote all
There's a good chance swapping a instrument cluster will render the car immobile unless you have it coded with the relevant factory software. This is the case on a 1997-on Audi A6 so suspect it will be the case on a 2010 Kia.

OBD2 port solution is the best shout. Look on Amazon or eBay.

CAPP0

19,530 posts

202 months

Saturday 30th November 2019
quotequote all
TheInsanity1234 said:
CAPP0 said:
Those 1.0 Picantos are a bugger to rev-match on a fast downshift if you don't have a rev counter tongue out
hehe

Trust me, my motive not about speed and performance, a 1.0 Picanto has neither of those! I'm profoundly deaf and can't really shift by sound, so I like to have the visual aid of the rev counter to aid mechanical sympathy, as otherwise I'd probably just be relying on the synchromesh to match the engine speed and it'd just be a jerky old time for all passengers!

After a few months of driving a car daily I do settle into it and the rev counter is no longer a necessity, but for those first few months while I'm still learning where the torque peak is and how much flexibility do I have in gear, it is useful to know whereabouts in the rev range the engine is!
thumbup

Blanco92

201 posts

70 months

Sunday 1st December 2019
quotequote all
Depends on the immo system installed. I had a 2000 Astra G auto which had no rev counter. It bugged the life out of me so I fitted one, it was plug and play. The mileage did end up with a haircut of about ~20k miles. But I had just fitted a second hand engine into the car as well so in all honesty the mileage reading was becoming utterly irrelevant!

Steve H

5,224 posts

194 months

Sunday 1st December 2019
quotequote all
It won’t affect the immobilser on a Kia, it’s mostly VAG and some Ford stuff that run through the cluster.

There will be an obd port if you want to go that route but I’d guess a used cluster of an otherwise similar age/spec car would be 90% likely to plug and play.

TheInsanity1234

Original Poster:

740 posts

118 months

Wednesday 4th December 2019
quotequote all
Thanks for all the useful advice, I'm now on the look out for a cheap cluster on ebay. I'll likely do the swap in January, perhaps shortly after the MOT which is due at the end of January, as that way I have it on official record what the approximate mileage was around the time of the cluster swap. I'll make sure to take photographs. My father suggested writing up a simple document stating something along the lines of "cluster swap on [date], mileage recorded on original cluster xxx,xxx miles at time of removal, mileage recorded on replacement cluster xxx,xxx miles at time of installation" and then signed by myself as RK and a witness, and then attach photos to that document as a belt and braces method!

That way there can be absolutely no dispute as to what the true mileage of the car is!

boyse7en

6,671 posts

164 months

Thursday 5th December 2019
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TheInsanity1234 said:
Thanks for all the useful advice, I'm now on the look out for a cheap cluster on ebay. I'll likely do the swap in January, perhaps shortly after the MOT which is due at the end of January, as that way I have it on official record what the approximate mileage was around the time of the cluster swap. I'll make sure to take photographs. My father suggested writing up a simple document stating something along the lines of "cluster swap on [date], mileage recorded on original cluster xxx,xxx miles at time of removal, mileage recorded on replacement cluster xxx,xxx miles at time of installation" and then signed by myself as RK and a witness, and then attach photos to that document as a belt and braces method!

That way there can be absolutely no dispute as to what the true mileage of the car is!
Seems a lot of work for what you admitted was really only needed for a few months until you get more used to the car. An OBD port reader (The ELM327 ones seem to get decent reviews, so that's the one i got) is around £5 then just download a free app like Torque and it will display the RPM. Takes less than five minutes to connect it all up.
I don't know the Picanto very well, but having had to work on instrument clusters on other cars they can be a long job with lots of hidden screws and levering of delicate plastics to find clips.