Paying for work that doesn't solve problem
Discussion
Pragmatism is an important trait you appear to apply as and when it suits, it appears.
You have new parts. Parts that wear. Parts that will be fairly worn on a 2007 car with enough miles to get it well over half way to the moon. It hasn't fixed your squeal but unless you really are on a shoestring budget (and I'd recommend then leasing something basic over running something with the potential to spit a big bill for things like the Haldex, or the camchain) then you're just a few parts newer on the engine for less than you'd have paid when they break. If you were up to your nuts to the tune of thousands, you put a protest in. For £200 (down from £300) you say "well, at least we know it isn't that, let's sort the next one out" and get on with your day. Take your daughter somewhere other than a miserable garage, have a good time and maybe impart important life lessons like "sometimes it's easy to tell what the problem is, sometimes it's a bit like whack a mole".
No, I'm not the garage. No, I'm not a paid mechanic. I just fix bits on my s
tty car as and when I can be arsed. Sometimes I fix the broken bits, sometimes I fix bits that I think are broken but weren't actually causing the problem I thought I was solving.
You have new parts. Parts that wear. Parts that will be fairly worn on a 2007 car with enough miles to get it well over half way to the moon. It hasn't fixed your squeal but unless you really are on a shoestring budget (and I'd recommend then leasing something basic over running something with the potential to spit a big bill for things like the Haldex, or the camchain) then you're just a few parts newer on the engine for less than you'd have paid when they break. If you were up to your nuts to the tune of thousands, you put a protest in. For £200 (down from £300) you say "well, at least we know it isn't that, let's sort the next one out" and get on with your day. Take your daughter somewhere other than a miserable garage, have a good time and maybe impart important life lessons like "sometimes it's easy to tell what the problem is, sometimes it's a bit like whack a mole".
No, I'm not the garage. No, I'm not a paid mechanic. I just fix bits on my s
tty car as and when I can be arsed. Sometimes I fix the broken bits, sometimes I fix bits that I think are broken but weren't actually causing the problem I thought I was solving.markyb_lcy said:
I personally would need some pretty stark evidence they were “ripping me off” before expecting money back or taking them to a claims court. Complex devices often require a “let’s try this and see” approach to fixing a problem. If you can get a trusted 2nd opinion, take it from there, but otherwise, take the hit in good faith.
agree with this.Odd noises are always difficult to diagnose which is why any competent outfit have a stethoscope in their array of tools. These can quickly locate the source of such noises. I was even taught in my youth that a long screwdriver placed on suspicious parts and Mk1 ear placed on the handle was also a good way to track down/confirm the source of odd noises.
Either one of the above methods would have identified if the alternator bearings were truly the source of the problem.
The inexorable reduction over time of true mechanics will inevitably result in increased cost to the average punter as the lottery of trial and error replacement becomes ever more prevalent.
Either one of the above methods would have identified if the alternator bearings were truly the source of the problem.
The inexorable reduction over time of true mechanics will inevitably result in increased cost to the average punter as the lottery of trial and error replacement becomes ever more prevalent.
Garvin said:
Either one of the above methods would have identified if the alternator bearings were truly the source of the problem.
I tend to find putting things on moving parts to result in painful experiences. With something like this you might be able to rule certain things out but you'll only get close.Pegscratch said:
Garvin said:
Either one of the above methods would have identified if the alternator bearings were truly the source of the problem.
I tend to find putting things on moving parts to result in painful experiences. With something like this you might be able to rule certain things out but you'll only get close.However, be that as it may, being able to cone down the problem to an area is better than trial and error replacement at £300 a throw until success is achieved!
early this year, on a new (to me car) from a main dealer, we started hearing a screaming/belt type noise immediately on start up.
after 4-5 mins of driving gone.
seems a commonish fault- associated with belts, pulleys and so on. Indeed the belt's seemingly need to actually bed in.
3 trips back to the main dealer to get that one sorted- and that's not on a 12 yr old R32 which will be a totally different ball game to sort.
after 4-5 mins of driving gone.
seems a commonish fault- associated with belts, pulleys and so on. Indeed the belt's seemingly need to actually bed in.
3 trips back to the main dealer to get that one sorted- and that's not on a 12 yr old R32 which will be a totally different ball game to sort.
Kuji said:
Thesprucegoose said:
How do you know the alternator bearing and idlers wern't knackered? You have made a vast amount of assumprions, your car is oldm, out of warrenty and any fault won't be clear cut, noises bounce around engine etc, you could spend hours trying to resolve faults.
it is never as simple as its x replace it, the vast majority, it is suck it and see.
id agree.it is never as simple as its x replace it, the vast majority, it is suck it and see.
Mechanical problems like the one the Op has cannot be identified by plugging in a laptop, and despite assurances to the contrary they don't all have a crystal ball.
Your alternator and idler probably were also on the way out, so you have likely mitigated a future fault, at a much cheaper cost than it would cost when they do fail. That's a win.
Perhaps the best bet is for the garage to put all the original broken parts back on the car and give it back.
Just take off the serpentine belt.....
Noise goes away - It's something to do with something on that circuit.
If it's not then it's another problem.
I’m probably guessing like most modern engines access down the side of the engine is likely very tight. I think the garage took off the aux belt spun the alternator, found some play so changed it. It sounds like something else is also worn. Whilst mechanic stethoscopes are great, if you can’t get one in it’s not much use. I don’t think £200 for the work done in unreasonable. If it had been thousands, then yes I’d be more inclined to take it further
you pay them for the time it takes to fix, you pay for the time it takes to diagnose and fixed including any parts, this is not fixed price like servicing. Whether this issue is fixed or not they have spent time and had to buy parts which are now fitted.
Its not ideal but I would guess an alternator replacement and fitting from VW would cost you more than the £200 you've paid. You have the benefit of the new alternator, you could probably ask them to swap back but expect the labour doing this to exceed the cost of the alternator.
Its not ideal but I would guess an alternator replacement and fitting from VW would cost you more than the £200 you've paid. You have the benefit of the new alternator, you could probably ask them to swap back but expect the labour doing this to exceed the cost of the alternator.
Garvin said:
trial and error replacement
Trial and error posting is as likely to get success.It's already been suggested that it would be entirely reasonable that the garage stuck their head underneath the car, took the belt off, no noise, wiggle a few bits and establish that the alternator bearing is worn beyond tolerance. At the end of the day you can only start with the obvious.
Maybe this is impractical but I wondered if garages couldn't use 'trial' shortened belts to try and isolate the offending item?
Had it on daughter's little 1.1. 3cy Mitsubishi Colt - dealer and our highly regarded village garage both couldn't isolate it, but both thought it likely to be the a/c compressor, a signifcant cost on that car. Left it and it never got any worse and we px'd the car some years later.
Had it on daughter's little 1.1. 3cy Mitsubishi Colt - dealer and our highly regarded village garage both couldn't isolate it, but both thought it likely to be the a/c compressor, a signifcant cost on that car. Left it and it never got any worse and we px'd the car some years later.
razorzz said:
The sale of Goods Act ( what was) still applies. They are a registered garage and as such they are expected to take it upon themselves to carry out effective diagnosis or repair to customers vehicles to resolve a problem successfully once their professional recommndation has been given. If they decline to take on the work, that is there right and there is no charge. But if in their infinite wisdom they fail to diagnose the problem correctly and offer to carry out the work or make a miss diagnosis which creates additional unecessary work and additional cost, the customer has a right to redress. Garages are not exempt. It may well be a small claims issue.. What thay have a right to do of course, at their own expense, is to refit the old parts into the same working order it was prior to attempting a repair and seeking a refund form their parts suppier. But that is their problem... Watch this space.. i love a good spat in the SCC. I have won 4 cases over the years against Comet, Currys, a wheel refurbisher in Exeter and a local council parking attendent who put a fraudulent time on a parking ticket claiming I was seen at a particular time, when I proved I couldn't possibly be there at that time as I had official documentation (time stamped) that proved I was elsewhere 10 miles away 3 minutes before the time on the ticket. And no my old R32 may be capable of 155mph but it would need to be closer to 210 mph non stop to get there in time. It a beautiful feeling when you win your case. You should try it. Comet, and Dixons legal team didn't even turn up and as far as I know the Council parking guy was instantly dismissed for fraud.
Given this post, the thread is going remarkably well for the OP :-)xjay1337 said:
It's very easy to check for alternator noises etc.
Just take off the serpentine belt.....
Noise goes away - It's something to do with something on that circuit.
If it's not then it's another problem.
While I agree it is a start, given how much stuff is normally on the belt it doesn't narrow things down very much if it stops squeeking Just take off the serpentine belt.....
Noise goes away - It's something to do with something on that circuit.
If it's not then it's another problem.
OP. you have two scenarios...
1) Garage stuck their finger in the air, thought "I reckon it might be the alternator" and changed it in the chance it might fix it.
2) Garage removed the belt, noise stopped so it was something related. Dug around with the stethoscope and could not locate it. Felt all the bearings and the alternator was the one that felt rough, so changed it.
It is all down to trust, if you trust the garage then assume scenario 2 and that they are doing their best and let them carry on.
If you don't trust them, good luck with proving it was scenario 1 but personally I would just find another garage you can trust.......
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