A State of Lawlessness

[LosingGrip]

Torquey said:

Its a shame that we need (lots of) police to keep us from doing wrong.

Surely the root problem is lack of education or/and respect.

I think it's down to people pushing the limits. See how far you can go before getting caught.

Out if everyone I've ever stopped over the years, i very much doubt it was their first time speeding, using a phone etc.

steveo3002 said:

why cant there be a plain clothes cop /car at locations , then hand out on the spot fines and it would self fund , no need to cry about cut backs

Police don't get the money from fines, so that wouldn't work anyway.

[Derek Smith]

steveo3002 said:

why cant there be a plain clothes cop /car at locations , then hand out on the spot fines and it would self fund , no need to cry about cut backs

I'm not sure you appreciate how the police service is funded.

Further, why can't there be a police officer turning up at every burglary? Why can't every fraud be investigated? Why can't the police attend every crime? Or, to put it another way, shouldn't manning levels of the service reflect the need?

[CzechItOut]

LosingGrip said:

I think it's down to people pushing the limits. See how far you can go before getting caught.

Out if everyone I've ever stopped over the years, i very much doubt it was their first time speeding, using a phone etc.

Exactly. I think there is also an element of people see others doing it and getting away with it (no front plates is a good example) and they think they'll do the same as there is no deterrent.

[psi310398]

Derek Smith said:

steveo3002 said:

why cant there be a plain clothes cop /car at locations , then hand out on the spot fines and it would self fund , no need to cry about cut backs

I'm not sure you appreciate how the police service is funded.

Further, why can't there be a police officer turning up at every burglary? Why can't every fraud be investigated? Why can't the police attend every crime? Or, to put it another way, shouldn't manning levels of the service reflect the need?

Yes, I do think that manning levels should reflect the need. Police should also be relieved of much of the paperwork/form filling that they appear to be required to perform.

I'd also be interested to know how much the broken windows theory still holds - does allowing low level disorder to proliferate flow through into other low-level disorder and into more serious crime? I suspect it does and that the government would do well, if it is going to invest in neglected places, rather than finding new Humber Bridges to spaff money on, to expend resources in combating this disorder, through more police on the beat and also through low level public works - anti-litter, public realm improvements etc.

Every time I travel through (admittedly Western) Germany, I am struck by how orderly, clean and well maintained the public spaces generally are. The same is also true of much of rural France (allegedly depopulated to the point of unsustainability). Look at the absence of litter on the verges of motorways in those countries, too. I simply cannot understand why we cannot do the same.

It stands to reason that if the authorities take pride in their places and people, those affected might respond in kind.

[anonymous-user]

Johnniem said:

I live in a good part of SE London and every day I get on and off the train to and from central London and smell wacky baccy. Local school kids openly smoke it on the station platform! I smell it on the buses. I smell it in the street and this morning, at 7.30, whilst waiting for a bus, someone driving a car (stuck in the traffic) was smoking a fat spliff. This is a common occurrence and there is no retribution for these people. Openly smoking the stuff in the street and not giving a jot of worry about any consequences. I am all for using the stuff (I don't) as it seems to be less of an issue than alcohol but I recently heard that drug driving has overtaken (apologies for the pun) drink driving as an offence.

Edited by Johnniem on Wednesday 15th January 10:42

You'd be forgiven for thinking it had been legalised (I wish) with the brazeness of it at the moment, even at work in town i get a whiff now and then, people just don't care

One of my friends in Kent is a copper and I passed an accident on the M2 a while ago on a Friday night, was a bad un and loads of Police and had closed the carriageway, spoke to friend next day to see if they were on it and we got chatting, they said a good 80% of the BiB on shift that night were taken up with that job and I could have driven home at 100+ without any risk of a tug (barring cameras obvs)

[eldar]

psi310398 said:

eldar said:

Fottage on video? Someone’s been busy on pornhub...

I think that's frottage.

I didn’t mean to rub you up the wrong way.....

[John Locke]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Not that I agree with him but there are some London vigilantes like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm6g2GP912ku4lPd-...

Looks like teh Met will prosecute based on video fottage of a driver using phone wlist sationary in traffic...

His revenge for schooldays being bogwashed?

[Durzel]

People habitually use their phones even though the penalty is severe - 6 points and £200 fine. They do it because they know that the chances of being caught are tiny relative to the number of miles driven.

John Locke said:

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Not that I agree with him but there are some London vigilantes like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm6g2GP912ku4lPd-...

Looks like teh Met will prosecute based on video fottage of a driver using phone wlist sationary in traffic...

His revenge for schooldays being bogwashed?

I've got zero problems with members of the public going vigilante/dashcam crazy with mobile phone usage. There's no excuse.

[silverfoxcc]

Give me a uniform and a marked car and i would cruise around for free, I would even put the petrol in it!!


I could rack up 50+ illegal plates per day, 100 phone users and i would need a printing press for the amount of tickets for MLM i could issue

No ifs or buts and if needed add DWDCA to the list

points and a fine, and i for the plate issue 7 days to get it changed

OK the rich buggers wont give a damm but if there was a way of giving the points or taking the car off the road there and then. that might concentrate their minds

[irocfan]

Glassman said:

They do it because there is no deterrent, or they are really that dumb/ignorant.

I honestly think that they are.

[irocfan]

Johnniem said:

I live in a good part of SE London and every day I get on and off the train to and from central London and smell wacky baccy. Local school kids openly smoke it on the station platform! I smell it on the buses. I smell it in the street and this morning, at 7.30, whilst waiting for a bus, someone driving a car (stuck in the traffic) was smoking a fat spliff. This is a common occurrence and there is no retribution for these people. Openly smoking the stuff in the street and not giving a jot of worry about any consequences. I am all for using the stuff (I don't) as it seems to be less of an issue than alcohol but I recently heard that drug driving has overtaken (apologies for the pun) drink driving as an offence.

it's not a recent thing though. I can remember 25 years ago getting on a mid-afternoon train to go home (at that time Tulse Hill, thankfully only for 6 months!) only to see (and smell!) a group of 4 lads happily not just smoking but smoking weed


Do we have too few police? Yes, however the blame, to a degree, must also lie with the chief constables who'll pretty much always say they need more people (I get the impression that were the chief constables given the resources of the stasi they'd still complain about lack of manpower). Cried wolf too often.

[The test driver]

MC Bodge said:

Has the OP ever left the UK?

Exactly, I'm currently living in New Jersey and I never thought I'd miss UK drivers. However back to OP's post it's getting ridiculous in the UK as everyone knows there's no consequences anymore.

[GreatGranny]

We'll just have to see if the 20,000 additional officers promised will materialise (from God knows where!)

[Oceanrower]

psi310398 said:

Every time I travel through (admittedly Western) Germany, I am struck by how orderly, clean and well maintained the public spaces generally are. The same is also true of much of rural France (allegedly depopulated to the point of unsustainability). Look at the absence of litter on the verges of motorways in those countries, too. I simply cannot understand why we cannot do the same.

I can assure you that whatever France lacks in litter, it more than makes up for it in graffiti!

[MC Bodge]

I have never understood the long-term British propensity for dropping litter.

Keep Britain Tidy has been going for a long time, for a reason.

[Red Devil]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Not that I agree with him but there are some London vigilantes like this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm6g2GP912ku4lPd-...

Looks like teh Met will prosecute based on video fottage of a driver using phone wlist sationary in traffic...

I have noticed quite a number of expensive chariots in his vids.
Beats me why such owners happily spunk their money on such conveyances, yet can't/won't invest in hands-free tech.
The law has trouble keeping pace with technological advancement. In this case it needs a radical rethink.

silverfoxcc said:

OK the rich buggers wont give a damm but if there was a way of giving the points or taking the car off the road there and then that might concentrate their minds

[psi310398]

Oceanrower said:

I can assure you that whatever France lacks in litter, it more than makes up for it in graffiti!

Up to a point. It is certainly pervasive on trains and on some bridges but most settlements in la France profonde that I have passed through seem very well-maintained (including verge planting), and clean.

[Peter3442]

Compared with most west European countries, we have very few policemen per head of population. Either we are law abiding or our government is too mean or doesn't care. As for cost, it's hard to say, but my guess is that it's something like £50,000 per year for one policeman. For comparison, the cost of keeping someone in prison is a little over £40,000 per year.

[psi310398]

Peter3442 said:

Compared with most west European countries, we have very few policemen per head of population. Either we are law abiding or our government is too mean or doesn't care. As for cost, it's hard to say, but my guess is that it's something like £50,000 per year for one policeman. For comparison, the cost of keeping someone in prison is a little over £40,000 per year.

I suspect £50k a year is on the low side (what with on costs etc).

It would, however, be interesting to see a comprehensive CBA of the appointment of thousands of extra beat officers, taking into account the effects on deterring and detecting crime. I don't think many are disputing the social effects of the police absenting themselves from our streets but there must be discernible economic consequences as well. The issue is whether the benefits are four or five times greater than the costs as this is the normal bar the Treasury sets for "investment", affordability apart.

[steveo3002]

Derek Smith said:

I'm not sure you appreciate how the police service is funded.

nope i didnt know

theres a need to police these bad drivers , so why not change it so there can be a officer on the corner dishing out fines , put the money into the pot to keep it going , would be easy money that easily covers their wage /costs all in the name of safety /think of the children