Other driver pranged barrier while overtaking.

[Alucidnation]

Just deny it all.

No damage to your car So they’ll have a hard time proving it.

[Dont like rolls]

She pulled over but did not check (checked but did not see a big 4x4 ?...bks she did not look ..sorry)....the question was when she pulled over and what was the position of the 4x4 when she did.

Did he have witness, Dash Cam ? > Making up stuff that is later shown to be crud will not look good.

[LosingGrip]

driver67 said:

Seems pretty straightforward to me. The guy crashed into a barrier.

Move on. Nothing to do with the OP or his wife surely?

Dougie.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170

.gov.uk said:

his section applies in a case where, owing to the presence of a [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] on a road [F2or other public place], an accident occurs by which—
(a)personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that [F1mechanically propelled vehicle], or
(b)damage is caused—
(i)to a vehicle other than that [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] or a trailer drawn by that [F1mechanically propelled vehicle], or
(ii)to an animal other than an animal in or on that [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] or a trailer drawn by that [F1mechanically propelled vehicle], or
(iii)to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road [F3or place] in question is situated or land adjacent to such land.

RTC due to the actions of the OPs wife.

[numtumfutunch]

If a muppet makes an overtaking move past a car which is approaching a bus clearly obstructing the carriageway then surely they should anticipate that the car will probably take avoiding action rather than coming to a stand still?

Cheers

[CABC]

numtumfutunch said:

If a muppet makes an overtaking move past a car which is approaching a bus clearly obstructing the carriageway then surely they should anticipate that the car will probably take avoiding action rather than coming to a stand still?

Cheers

we don't know what happened. but this is my take too from what we know. 4x4 was overtaking too many risks )possible pedestrians too)

[Dont like rolls]

numtumfutunch said:

If a muppet makes an overtaking move past a car which is approaching a bus clearly obstructing the carriageway then surely they should anticipate that the car will probably take avoiding action rather than coming to a stand still?

Cheers

Really, how can you tell from the OP description.

"The bus in front of my wife pulled into the bus stop but was still sticking out a wee bit. My wife pulled out to overtake the sticking out bit"

I --could--read that like this: Wife following bus, 4x4 overtaking, wife pulls out a bit as the bus moves into bay but not yet fully into bay (we all have done it, it is called anticipation) forcing 4x4 into barrier because she did not look.

Just as likely and DEFO not saying She did Op....but based on that description. Just find out if the 4x4/bus has got dash cam/witness before you make up stuff, better to "not remember" than to lie.

[Masiv]

It's all guess work at the moment but I have to say that overtaking a car and bus at the same time that the bus has just stopped is bloody stupid. You wait a few seconds to see if the car pulls out. If the car driver had been dawdling previously I understand wanting to get past, but it appears that they had been keeping up with the bus and therefore probably driving at the speed limit. 4x4 driver was just impatient and should have had more foresight into what might happen. Unless there are witnesses what's to say that the 4x4 driver was approaching the queue too fast and wasn't concentrating, had to take evasive action and ended up pranging his vehicle. Insurance company will probably go 50/50 though.

[mmm-five]

3rd option...it's the bus' fault for not pulling into the bus stop completely

[Dont like rolls]

I have to admit I have "moved over a little" to pass a turning truck that (so not to have to stop) has not quite finished his turn/cleared the main road.

[Graveworm]

Too many variables. Changing lane should not force another vehicle to change course or speed and an indicator is irrelevant, as that shouldn't be applied until you are sure that is the case. In fact an inappropriate indicator in circumstances like this could cause an accident. However it depends if the 4x4 was in the offside carriageway when all this started or it moved after or as the OPs wife was moving. Also was the 4x4 actually left sufficient room but mistakenly "Flinched" anticipating a more extreme manoeuvre.
Lots of things both parties may have done differently to avoid the accident. Irrespective of who has priority never a good idea to assume everyone is not going to do something wrong. The problem for the OP is if they don't know what happened outside their own driving bubble, the only account of what the 4x4 did will come from them and on the balance of probabilities will be accepted.
The bus could have stopped in the carriageway, that wouldn't have changed who should have done what.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 21st January 11:05

[mmm-five]

Dont like rolls said:

I have to admit I have "moved over a little" to pass a turning truck that (so not to have to stop) has not quite finished his turn/cleared the main road.

I'm sure most of us have.

On the other hand, I've had a pickup go into the back of me when I've braked lightly instead, when I wasn't able to overtake due to a central traffic island. I probably only dropped to 30mph in a 40mph road to give the tipper truck time to complete the turn.

[Durzel]

KungFuPanda said:

Durzel said:

Did the wife actually make contact with third party? No.
Did the wife use mind control to make third party drive off the road? No.

Sounds to me like third party wasn’t apprehensive enough about passing and/or was driving too fast for the manoeuvre, didn’t read the road ahead properly to anticipate the car in front pulling out to overtake the bus.

Sometimes you don’t need contact to occur for liability to attach to you. What if you pulled out of a give way junction and a motorcyclist had to serve and came off his bike to avoid your front end?

Also, do you know what apprehensive means?

Apprehensive seems like it would be appropriate? If you're approaching a car that you think might pull out, because of the circumstances, then you ought to be apprehensive of a potential collision and drive accordingly.

I don't think the comparison to Give Way junctions is valid tbh. Someone pulling out of a Give Way without due care and attention, causing an accident, would almost always be liable I would've thought?

Obviously the devil is in the detail on this one, but from the OP's account his wife wasn't hesitant, so presumably wasn't dawdling behind the bus deciding what to do. It sounds on the face of it that the 4x4 driver saw an opportunity to overtake both vehicles and just went for it, without giving sufficient consideration that the car in front might pull out.

I don't know about others but if someone pulls in and leaves part of their vehicle blocking the road then I would assume that whoever is in front of me is going to attempt to go around it, particularly if it's a bus where that person would otherwise be waiting there for possibly several minutes while people get on and off. Overtaking that person there is, in my opinion, the wrong move.

[Norfolk B-roads]

LosingGrip said:

RTC due to the actions of the OPs wife.

100%.

[Torquey]

Norfolk B-roads said:

LosingGrip said:

RTC due to the actions of the OPs wife.

100%.

IMO it is the fault of the OP's wife. What if it had a been a police car or Ambulance overtaking? It sounds like something went wrong with the Mirror, signal, manoeuvre process. And I believe you should not cause another vehicle to change their speed or direction when changing lanes.

My guess would be a 50/50 insurance claim if there are no dashcams involved though.

In fact it quite scary for those that say "100% the muppet overtakers fault". As long as you're alright Jack.

[drdel]

Mirror, (if she did she'd remember !)
Signal, (indicators aren't Dr Who vaporisers)
Manoeuvre, (only if its safe to do so!)

She should have checked it was safe to pull out around the stationary bus, if uncertain then shoe should have stopped;- possibly she was going too fast so had to pull out!

4x4 (why does it matter?) may have expected the car to have stopped, but may have not anticipated a 'quick' evading movement by OP's wife.

Too many 'if, buts and may be's'' but her actions led to the string of events -t'will end as a Knock for Knock IMO.

[superlightr]

Norfolk B-roads said:

LosingGrip said:

RTC due to the actions of the OPs wife.

100%.

would tend to agree with this as well.

OP wife changes lanes/position on the road without looking which forces another user to crash.

Sounds like a nice long straight road, 2 or 3 cars behind said bus all travelling with 4x4 last car or somewhere in the line behind bus. 4x4 sees good oportunity to overtake and does so. OP wife pulls out into path of 4x4 to avoid the bus stopping. Had Op wife not pulled out she would not have caused the crash. Had she looked she would have seen the 4x4 overtaking and would have stopped behind bus.

[PF62]

superlightr said:

Norfolk B-roads said:

LosingGrip said:

RTC due to the actions of the OPs wife.

100%.

would tend to agree with this as well.

OP wife changes lanes/position on the road without looking which forces another user to crash.

Sounds like a nice long straight road, 2 or 3 cars behind said bus all travelling with 4x4 last car or somewhere in the line behind bus. 4x4 sees good oportunity to overtake and does so. OP wife pulls out into path of 4x4 to avoid the bus stopping. Had Op wife not pulled out she would not have caused the crash. Had she looked she would have seen the 4x4 overtaking and would have stopped behind bus.

And had the 4x4 looked they would have seen the bus pulling into the stop and wouldn't have overtaken, so the 4x4's fault.

[super7]

So if the OP's wife is driving along, the bus in front pulls into a stop and leaves it's back end hanging out, what's she supposed to do? 4x4 man behind has obviously committed to take both the bus and the OP's wife at the same time. If she had of spotted him (he was probably in her blind spot) what's she supposed to do. Stay on her current trajectory and hit the bus, slam the brakes on and probably hit the bus, close her eye's and hope for the best?

I can only suggest that the 4x4 driver has initiated the whole scenario with impatience and has put the OP's wife, inadvertently into a no win situation. If the 4x4 anticipated the situation correctly nobody would have come to harm. I put it down to the 4x4 driver, driving without due care and attention. 100% his fault as he created the scenario of the crash by his own actions.

He's probably full of bravado at the moment, and will say anything to anyone to prove he is in the right and OP's wife is in the wrong. OP's wife needs to defend her position against him. He put everyone in a dangerous position.

[Getragdogleg]

It read to me like captain slick in the pick up thought he saw an opportunity to get past the bus and the car and failed to make it stick.

As I have complained about before on here I have trouble with being overtaken after I have pulled over to the left to allow ambulances to pass me, the person behind me often then tries to pass me too having sped up as the ambulance passed them while they were pulled over.

I live and work next to a main ambulance depot and this will happen two maybe three times a week, if I were to cause one of these idiots to have a crash I would fight tooth and nail that its not my fault, I was ahead and still moving in many instances of encountering impatient tts.

[Graveworm]

super7 said:

So if the OP's wife is driving along, the bus in front pulls into a stop and leaves it's back end hanging out, what's she supposed to do? 4x4 man behind has obviously committed to take both the bus and the OP's wife at the same time. If she had of spotted him (he was probably in her blind spot) what's she supposed to do. Stay on her current trajectory and hit the bus, slam the brakes on and probably hit the bus, close her eye's and hope for the best?

I can only suggest that the 4x4 driver has initiated the whole scenario with impatience and has put the OP's wife, inadvertently into a no win situation. If the 4x4 anticipated the situation correctly nobody would have come to harm. I put it down to the 4x4 driver, driving without due care and attention. 100% his fault as he created the scenario of the crash by his own actions.

She should drive so she can stop in the distance she can see to be clear and only change lane if it would not cause another vehicle to change speed or direction If necessary she should stop to avoid doing that yes. The 4x4 in all likelihood should have done a better job of anticipating what might happen and erred on the side of caution. That does not completely reverse liability any more than not realising that, sometimes, people don't always stop at red lights make the car that went through the red light blameless.