E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

Author
Discussion

Graveworm

8,476 posts

70 months

Wednesday 9th June 2021
quotequote all
eldar said:
53 sources, 53 different results in different countries. To me that is inconclusive.

Much more data is required, simply.
But in which countries did they shift from car journeys to e-scoter journeys in sufficient numbers to make it beneficial when balanced against the shift away from transport that is safer, healthier and better for the environment? A spectrum of negative conclusions isn't a reason to enact change, in case they should have been positive. But we circle back to my original points, that's why we need trials and it's not a case of "It can only be a good thing".

Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 9th June 19:03

MB140

4,027 posts

102 months

Wednesday 9th June 2021
quotequote all
I was sat in Nottingham city centre at one of the bars on the bank holiday.

Not one single e-scooter was being ridden on the road as allowed. Every single one I saw in about 6 hours (probably 100+ (Yellow ones whichever rental brand that is)) was being ridden on the pavement, often with two or even 3 people on them. Wizzing around between people at full speed.

If the police had been stood where I was sat at an outside table of a bar they could have been dishing out points like confetti at a mass wedding. I didn’t see one complying with the law.

I did see two blokes n one nearly knock a pregnant woman and her infant child over. They then had the audacity to start swearing at her for being in the way.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Wednesday 9th June 2021
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
Toltec said:
eldar said:
That would seem to be the perfect scenario. Green, convenient and suitable. That HMG make it a serious crime is frankly ludicrous.
HMG are simply scared of giving specific approval to something that will result in headlines when people using them are hurt. Cycling on pavements is not allowed, but as it is ignored people treat it as allowed and because the incidents are low nothing has to be done about it. Scooters are a little different as they are powered, you would have to allow unregulated motor vehicles to use the pavements and/or roads.

The solution is simple really, if it saves a single life you don't allow them. You might say what about freedom or saving the environment, but by far and away the biggest pressure group is save the children.
That is just an odd view, running, horses, bicycles, motorcycles, cars, boats, planes, helicopters are all used to move people a to b and all result in deaths.

HMG probably don't like the idea as people would use an escooter over a car, or bus etc which the government gets revenue from. If you take a 3 mile trip on a escootrt no fuel duty no tax on public transport travel etc.
Those are existing forms of transport which already have their own regulations allowing use on public highway. They are not responsible for them other than adding safety measures. Adding a new form of transport is a different thing entirely.

Not sure the revenue stream works as they are losing duty on EVs anyway.

croyde

22,702 posts

229 months

Wednesday 9th June 2021
quotequote all
Just been up and back from Liverpool. There's hire scooters everywhere, ridden and parked up.

Never tried one, hate the ones I nearly don't see in the night here in London, dark clothing and no lights, when I'm driving home from work.

Anyway, thought I'd give it a go. There was one by Albert Dock so I downloaded the app. You have to add a way to pay and it wants a pic of both sides of your driving licence and a selfie. Apparently you can be given points on your licence if you are caught playing silly buggers, drinking booze etc.

I had a quick whizz around in front of my daughter to get the feel. Very heavy, but down low due to the big battery, thus stable.

Brakes impressed.

So a quid to unlock scoot and 20p a minute. That taster cost me £1.40.

Later, after we had dinner, I found one on the pavement, unlocked it with the app and headed to my hotel.

Took a wrong turning, I was sticking to the roads, which added 5 minutes round a one way system. That's another quid.

Parked outside my hotel. You have to use the app to take a pic of where you parked it to lock it and stop your hire.

Total cost £4.

Nice idea if you don't act a knob, but I saw plenty, but the 20p per minute could get costly.

I first read it as 20p a mile.

You can buy a months pass for £39, but each use cannot be more than 45 minutes.

bigothunter

11,069 posts

59 months

Wednesday 9th June 2021
quotequote all
pincher said:
I don't think it would tip forward, purely because the COG will be quite low, in comparison to a bike. I'll try an unscientific 'emergency stop' from full speed tomorrow, traffic permitting.
E-scooter brakes are crap so you'll be fine hehe

"Only one of the five tested e-scooter models delivered better values ​​than the minimum braking deceleration of 4 m/s2 required by law for bicycles."

ref: https://etsc.eu/austrian-warnings-over-e-scooter-s... Thanks Graveworm thumbup

ddom

6,657 posts

47 months

Wednesday 9th June 2021
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
The police may be having an occasional crackdown on illegal activities, that is their job after all, but that will do nothing to change the current course that e-scooters are on, and I would bet money on privately owned scooters being legalised for use on public roads and cycle paths within 12 months.

The Transport Committee are pushing for it to be sooner, but the Government are dragging their feet.

In the meantime, rental and leasing of them will continue to expand.

The long and short of it is, scooters will arrive on our roads in much greater numbers in the very near future.
You forgot ‘in your opinion’

Ian Geary

4,462 posts

191 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
MB140 said:
I did see two blokes n one nearly knock a pregnant woman and her infant child over. They then had the audacity to start swearing at her for being in the way.
I watched a BBC news article saying how disability campaigners in London are worried about the lack of a safety sound on scooters.

You may have inadvertently solved the problem....all they need is to hire them to chavs, who can f and blind at anyone in their way.

Simples.

pincher

8,497 posts

216 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
pincher said:
I don't think it would tip forward, purely because the COG will be quite low, in comparison to a bike. I'll try an unscientific 'emergency stop' from full speed tomorrow, traffic permitting.
Full speed, from the top of the road. Pulled the brakes at the back of the Fiat. I’m a fairly heavy lump as well, so it probably lengthened the stopping distance a bit.

Probably not as quick as a bike in terms of time taken to stop but not too horrendous?


bigothunter

11,069 posts

59 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
pincher said:
Full speed, from the top of the road. Pulled the brakes at the back of the Fiat. I’m a fairly heavy lump as well, so it probably lengthened the stopping distance a bit.

Probably not as quick as a bike in terms of time taken to stop but not too horrendous?

The most dubious brake test I've ever seen - well done bow

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
croyde said:
Apparently you can be given points on your licence if you are caught playing silly buggers, drinking booze etc.

We've had a couple of cases locally where drinking and E-scooters have resulted in a ban and in charges of drink driving.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-5732...

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/crime/colchester-spin-...

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
ddom said:
Lord Marylebone said:
The police may be having an occasional crackdown on illegal activities, that is their job after all, but that will do nothing to change the current course that e-scooters are on, and I would bet money on privately owned scooters being legalised for use on public roads and cycle paths within 12 months.

The Transport Committee are pushing for it to be sooner, but the Government are dragging their feet.

In the meantime, rental and leasing of them will continue to expand.

The long and short of it is, scooters will arrive on our roads in much greater numbers in the very near future.
You forgot ‘in your opinion’
That is my best guess as to what will happen, having read numerous pieces of information published by the government.

Rental and leasing programs are currently increasing as we speak. See the introduction of more schemes in London only 2 days ago.

You are free to read the reports from the Transport Select Committee reports for yourself.

Are you suggesting legalisation of private scooters won’t happen? Or are you not wanting it to happen? I’m not sure what your point is in all of this?

pincher

8,497 posts

216 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
bigothunter said:
The most dubious brake test I've ever seen - well done bow
I did say it would be unscientific! laugh

pincher

8,497 posts

216 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
That is my best guess as to what will happen, having read numerous pieces of information published by the government.

Rental and leasing programs are currently increasing as we speak. See the introduction of more schemes in London only 2 days ago.

You are free to read the reports from the Transport Select Committee reports for yourself.

Are you suggesting legalisation of private scooters won’t happen? Or are you not wanting it to happen? I’m not sure what your point is in all of this?
I can’t see these rental companies spending fairly decent sums of money to buy the hardware and develop the software etc. to pilot across various towns and cities if they didn’t think (have inside knowledge?) that it was a fairly foregone conclusion that legislation will be changed?

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
pincher said:
I can’t see these rental companies spending fairly decent sums of money to buy the hardware and develop the software etc. to pilot across various towns and cities if they didn’t think (have inside knowledge?) that it was a fairly foregone conclusion that legislation will be changed?
I think the rental companies are aiming to be able to make money even if their rental business is confined to specific towns/cities, or even specific areas.

Bear in mind that their costs to set up in UK cities are massively diluted due to the fact that many of them operate all over the world.

It’s difficult to say if the rental business would expand or shrink if private scooters were legalised? If legalised, surely most people would just spend the £300-500 and buy their own scooter if it was something they would use often? There would still be tourists and visitors to the town that’s may want to use the rental option though.

I have no doubt that some of the biggest scooter rental companies have someone in government they can discuss this with and get ‘off the record’ comments from.

h0b0

7,558 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
Surely we can look at Boris bikes as an example of what would happen if scooters were made legal. Are the Boris bikes financially viable or massively subsidized?

pincher

8,497 posts

216 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
Hugely sponsored, no?

Boris Bikes were a (local) Government initiative weren’t they? E-scooters will be entirely private I’d imagine, so probably no subsidies.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
h0b0 said:
Surely we can look at Boris bikes as an example of what would happen if scooters were made legal. Are the Boris bikes financially viable or massively subsidized?
Boris bikes are subsidised. 17% of their income is subsidy from TFL.

That being said, in other cities there are privately run cycle hire schemes, and electric bike hire schemes, that seem to operate and turn a profit, despite people being able to use their own privately owned bicycles.

Jump, Mobike, Move, Hourbike, Smoove, Co-Bike, Donkey Republic, AppBike FreeBike, Bike & Go etc are all companies operating bike hire schemes and all apparently making a profit out of it, otherwise I presume they wouldn't bother.

RizzoTheRat

25,085 posts

191 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
AJL308 said:
Any form of transport other than your own legs - excluding things like wheelchairs - should require mandatory insurance for use in public. It amazes me that pedal cycles have avoided it thus far.
In quite a few countries it's standard to have a personal liability insurance. My Dutch one covers me if I cycled in to a pedestrian and hurt them for example. It's not compulsory though.
In the UK I think membership of British Cycling includes liability insurance for cycle related incidents, although I don't know what proportion of cyclists are members. I doubt many people have similar coverage for scooters though.

Donbot

3,892 posts

126 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
RizzoTheRat said:
In quite a few countries it's standard to have a personal liability insurance. My Dutch one covers me if I cycled in to a pedestrian and hurt them for example. It's not compulsory though.
In the UK I think membership of British Cycling includes liability insurance for cycle related incidents, although I don't know what proportion of cyclists are members. I doubt many people have similar coverage for scooters though.
If they become legal it will likely be bundled in with contents insurance as with bikes and ebikes currently.

People like to complain that cyclists don't have insurance, but the vast majority probably do. Probably even more so than drivers.

h0b0

7,558 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th June 2021
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
h0b0 said:
Surely we can look at Boris bikes as an example of what would happen if scooters were made legal. Are the Boris bikes financially viable or massively subsidized?
Boris bikes are subsidised. 17% of their income is subsidy from TFL.

That being said, in other cities there are privately run cycle hire schemes, and electric bike hire schemes, that seem to operate and turn a profit, despite people being able to use their own privately owned bicycles.

Jump, Mobike, Move, Hourbike, Smoove, Co-Bike, Donkey Republic, AppBike FreeBike, Bike & Go etc are all companies operating bike hire schemes and all apparently making a profit out of it, otherwise I presume they wouldn't bother.
I am not UK based but suspected the Boris Bike would be subsidized. The other examples you provided are valid though and show there is a sustainable business even once scooters become legal.

I bought my scooter last year and have done many miles on it including last night as the kids wanted to go on a bike ride and I did not want to turn into a sweaty mess in the 35C and humid weather. I have yet to commute on it though due to covid. That was going to change tomorrow as I have to go to my office for the first time ever. But, as I fancy after work drinks and do not want to be burdened with the scooter, I have decided not to take it. In this case I would consider renting one for the convenience but I do not think they are in NYC yet.