Airline with ridiculous flight change - what rights if any?

[jondude]

Was scheduled to return to UK from Japan via China in a few weeks. The airline has now changed the flight from Tokyo to China so it has me arriving 8 hours AFTER the connecting flight to London.

Agency in London are advising re a refund but doing the 'subject to fees and conditions of ticket' but I put to them this ridiculous change has removed my promise of carriage to the UK on the original ticket/contract. That in essence the airline is forcing me to cancel and so should give a fee free refund - a full refund of the return leg.

Anyone know where I stand? Seems wrong to me they can make such a stupid change and still take most of your money if not all from it as you simply cannot fly The Chinese airline said ' we will sort it out when you are in China' then went deaf when I said why not do so now and at least book me on the very next London flight so I can travel from Japan in relative peace.

(Insurance taken does not cover this they tell me as yes...I will be cancelling, not the airline)

[wisbech]

Is it one through ticket, or two separate tickets?

[10126 Torino]

I'd politely request not to be going to China.....

[jondude]

Thanks for above - is the same airline throughout. Flew me out no issues but have now made these changes to the return leg.

I did indeed suggest they could send me on any alternative route and yes, politely said I did not really want to be waiting in China for them to 'sort it out' any longer than necessary.

[jondude]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sorry maybe I misunderstood.

2 flights, one from Tokyo to China, then China to London - both flights with same airline. When I checked in for the flights out (London- China, China Tokyo) they issued boarding passes for both flights.


The original had me landing 5 hours before the London flight, now that flight has been changed to another (with same airline) that gets me there 8 hours after the London flight is scheduled to leave.

[wisbech]

Yes, it is Air China’s responsibility then (as a single through ticket). Yes, they should rebook you on another PEK-LHR flight (if they are still flying - corona virus and all that)

But given that China is in complete chaos, with tens of thousands of cancelled or changed flights, yeah, they’ll get to you case when they get to your case, which may be as late as when you turn up to check in...

You can be in China up to 3 days without a visa on transit, so might involve overnight stay, in which case they should give you hotel room.

[jondude]

wisbech said:

Yes, it is Air China’s responsibility then (as a single through ticket). Yes, they should rebook you on another PEK-LHR flight (if they are still flying - corona virus and all that)

But given that China is in complete chaos, with tens of thousands of cancelled or changed flights, yeah, they’ll get to you case when they get to your case, which may be as late as when you turn up to check in...

You can be in China up to 3 days without a visa on transit, so might involve overnight stay, in which case they should give you hotel room.

This is indeed what the locals here are saying - just go and let them sort it out as they have a duty to get you home and take care of it. As you say though, could mean a day or two there which is not an attractive thought.

Thanks for the help.

[jondude]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Single trip Lon-China- Japan and Jap-China- London all on one e ticket/booking reference and same airline.

[hutchst]

I suppose they'll be making up some kind of bullst about extenuating circumstances beyond their control.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Check EU rules regrading flight cancellations and delays - any flight landing with a final detination within the EU is covered ...

See:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passe...

[PorkInsider]

I'm sure they'll sort it at some point - maybe at the airport when you check in, though...

I had a sort of similar experience on a business trip to Karachi when the 737 Max was first being taken out of service. Oman Air rebooked me on a flight from KHI to MCT which would arrive after my flight from MCT to MAN left.

They did eventually fix it after a few calls but at first they seemed struggle to understand the issue. I assume because they're not used to the system allowing them to mess up in that way but because of the cancelled flights it did?

OP, are you sure they haven't mistakenly rebooked you on the wrong day and in fact you're heading for a 16hr stopover rather than being 8hrs late?

[Fox-]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Check EU rules regrading flight cancellations and delays - any flight landing with a final detination within the EU is covered ...

See:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passe...

No it's not, for arriving flights it has to be an EU airline. It's only departing flights where all carriers are covered.

[jondude]

Thanks all.

Present mindset is to turn up in Tokyo and see what happens once check in sees they have us booked on flights that do not work. There is another flight to London the next day after we arrive so we will push like mad to get on that.

My other idea with this tactic is if they refuse us boarding in Tokyo, that is they cancel the ticket as we stand there, then we must (?) have a right to compensation beyond a few dollars 'refund after fees'? (Hence why I think they will get us on that flight even if it means business class...well, you can but hope )

We shall see.

[jondude]

PorkInsider said:

I'm sure they'll sort it at some point - maybe at the airport when you check in, though...

I had a sort of similar experience on a business trip to Karachi when the 737 Max was first being taken out of service. Oman Air rebooked me on a flight from KHI to MCT which would arrive after my flight from MCT to MAN left.

They did eventually fix it after a few calls but at first they seemed struggle to understand the issue. I assume because they're not used to the system allowing them to mess up in that way but because of the cancelled flights it did?

OP, are you sure they haven't mistakenly rebooked you on the wrong day and in fact you're heading for a 16hr stopover rather than being 8hrs late?

Fair question - I thought too that HAD to be the case - and indeed I made sure I had a few cups of tea so I could be sure I was not missing something as it seems such a weird mistake to make.

But no, neither I nor others can see anything beyond China to London Feb 21 leaves 11.35 am

Tokyo to China arrival China Feb 21 at 8 pm. (20:10 on the ticket)


I have put that to both the London agency and the Chinese Airline - put me on a Tokyo flight on Feb 20, I don't mind a long wait just get me home. I think as you say the junior staff on the phones and chat lines just don't know what to do and waffle until you give up.

Edited by jondude on Friday 7th February 08:18

[echazfraz]

Tangentially related anecdote of limited use:

I missed a flight from Japan to the UK once. For reasons that had lots to do with being out til the wee small hours the night before with lots of Dutch MBA students from Toyota. I woke up in my flat at roughly the time my flight was leaving.

When I rocked up at the airport around 2 hours later, all the way there trying to work out what my credit limit was so that I could buy myself another ticket, I was met with looks of confusion and then an offer to book me on the next day's flight. For free.

One of the best sleeps that I've had was the one immediately after I trudged away from that ticket desk to the nearest airport hotel.

TL;DR - if you turn up sake and sweat drenched you may be allowed on a different flight to the one you're booked on.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Fox- said:

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Check EU rules regrading flight cancellations and delays - any flight landing with a final detination within the EU is covered ...

See:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passe...

No it's not, for arriving flights it has to be an EU airline. It's only departing flights where all carriers are covered.

Thanks - didn't know that restriction

[Kateg28]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Fox- said:

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Check EU rules regrading flight cancellations and delays - any flight landing with a final detination within the EU is covered ...

See:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passe...

No it's not, for arriving flights it has to be an EU airline. It's only departing flights where all carriers are covered.

Thanks - didn't know that restriction

And we aren't in the EU... (Though it probably is covered under transition arrangements)

[Sheepshanks]

jondude said:

Agency in London are advising re a refund but doing the 'subject to fees and conditions of ticket'

What do the "fees and conditions of ticket" say? Maybe they're just quoting that automatically, and in fact the conditions say you're entitled to a full refund.

[alangla]

Kateg28 said:

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Fox- said:

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Check EU rules regrading flight cancellations and delays - any flight landing with a final detination within the EU is covered ...

See:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passe...

No it's not, for arriving flights it has to be an EU airline. It's only departing flights where all carriers are covered.

Thanks - didn't know that restriction

And we aren't in the EU... (Though it probably is covered under transition arrangements)

Not quite, surprisingly. A bit of Googling reveals this - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/278/pdfs/u... - the EU261 rules are actually written into UK law already with a refund value in GBP rather than EUR.

[jondude]

Sheepshanks said:

jondude said:

Agency in London are advising re a refund but doing the 'subject to fees and conditions of ticket'

What do the "fees and conditions of ticket" say? Maybe they're just quoting that automatically, and in fact the conditions say you're entitled to a full refund.

Conflicting figures here - e-ticket says 'based on journey used or left minus about 200 quid for their fees'. The Chinese Airline have said they are waiving fees and giving a a full refund but cannot give a figure as I must apply for it. Worryingly, they add 'on most tickets'.

A rep of another airline here has said as others here, that I should not cancel as that is the easy option for them and costliest for me, but rather turn up at check in and leave them to sort it out there. Either we get a confirmed journey or we should have a refund taken care of there and then.

I'd rather we just got home so yes, as there is hope they could sort it out then off to the airport it is.


I'll let you know how it goes - thanks and thanks all.