HGV driver kills child and teacher, due to playing on phone

[echazfraz]

Should there be harsher sentences for professional drivers i.e. those with a CPC qualification than there are for those of us who drive to or in the course of our work but not for work?

[paintman]

echazfraz said:

Should there be harsher sentences for professional drivers i.e. those with a CPC qualification than there are for those of us who drive to or in the course of our work but not for work?

Increasing the risk of being caught is more likely to affect the behaviour of drivers, professional or otherwise.

[singlecoil]

paintman said:

Increasing the risk of being caught is more likely to affect the behaviour of drivers, professional or otherwise.

Absolutely. Whatever it would cost to keep this guy in prison for another year would be far, far better spent on better law enforcement.

[Trevor555]

singlecoil said:

paintman said:

Increasing the risk of being caught is more likely to affect the behaviour of drivers, professional or otherwise.

Absolutely. Whatever it would cost to keep this guy in prison for another year would be far, far better spent on better law enforcement.

This is what I don't get.

The government could be making a fortune at £200 per conviction for mobile phone users.

And all in the name of safety.

A large fleet of unmarked vans with 360 degree cameras.

Driven around all day I'm sure they'd catch at least 10 per hour?

7 hours at work would equal £14,000 in one day generated by fines.

One driver, two people reviewing the footage the next day and dealing with the process, and the cost of the van.

Each van would rake in a few million pounds each year.

And it WOULD save lives getting these idiot phone users off the roads, they'd soon get caught twice.

Edited by Trevor555 on Wednesday 12th February 14:18

[paintman]

Trevor555 said:

This is what I don't get.

The government could be making a fortune at £200 per conviction for mobile phone users.

And all in the name of safety.

A large fleet of unmarked vans with 360 degree cameras.

Driven around all day I'm sure they'd catch at least 10 per hour?

7 hours at work would equal £14,000 in one day generated by fines.

One driver, two people reviewing the footage the next day and dealing with the process, and the cost of the van.

Each van would rake in a few million pounds each year.

And it WOULD save lives getting these idiot phone users off the roads, they'd soon get caught twice.

Edited by Trevor555 on Wednesday 12th February 14:18

Had numbers not been allowed to drop then you would have a lot more Police officers able to be deployed for routine patrol/traffic patrol/foot patrol etc instead of an endless rushing from one job to the next with little or no time to do anything else.

In addition to enforcing phone law (and whatever else results from the stop, incl outstanding warrants, vehicle defects, no insurance, drink/drug driving) they would be able to deal with a lot more that gets brought up on this & other forums including bad driving.

[bucksmanuk]

Trax said:

I wonder if there was a queue on the exit slip road, and traffic queued back into lane 1? People have often on here said they would queue onto the hard shoulder rather than in lane 1, and other have said no, stop in lane 1.....

Just to add my 2p worth
The M58 is (in my experience) a very quiet motorway, and that turn off is the one I take going to Southport to visit family. I’ve never seen a traffic queue there - ever - in 35+ years of using it...

[Kawasicki]

I'm based in Germany. I took a bus 50km to the airport a few months ago.

Normally, like most, I drive a car.

I decided to monitor what HGV drivers are up to. In 30 minutes of Autobahn travel I saw about 7 or 8 drivers using electronic devices on their steering wheels and 1 was reading a newspaper. We overtook maybe 30 trucks. The drivers seemed to look up every 2 to 3 seconds to make slight steering corrections. There was no need for speed corrections as they were all driving speed limited trucks.

I'm surprised such accidents don't happen more frequently.

Maybe we should speed limit the trucks to 60 km/h? That would be safer.

[rscott]

Thesprucegoose said:

Commercial vehicles should have cell blockers. If you want to make a call it will only stop working when parked up.

Assume you mean blocking all data? Not sure that would go down well with all users of GPS telemetry systems.. Or vehicles with more than one crewmember...

[vonhosen]

echazfraz said:

Should there be harsher sentences for professional drivers i.e. those with a CPC qualification than there are for those of us who drive to or in the course of our work but not for work?

Things are more stringent for them (vocational licence holders).

[Fatball]

I’ve seen footage taken by one force of a HGV driver cooking beans on a gas stove while driving.

A professional driver that is successfully prosecuted for that type of driving offence and other such as mobile phone use etc should receive a months ban along with the points and the fine.

[Agila b 6yr 6k]

Kawasicki said:

I'm based in Germany. I took a bus 50km to the airport a few months ago.

Normally, like most, I drive a car.

I decided to monitor what HGV drivers are up to. In 30 minutes of Autobahn travel I saw about 7 or 8 drivers using electronic devices on their steering wheels and 1 was reading a newspaper. We overtook maybe 30 trucks. The drivers seemed to look up every 2 to 3 seconds to make slight steering corrections. There was no need for speed corrections as they were all driving speed limited trucks.

I'm surprised such accidents don't happen more frequently.

Maybe we should speed limit the trucks to 60 km/h? That would be safer.

Your solution to LGV drivers not looking at the road is to reduce truck speed limit to 60kph which is 37.28 mph????

[vonhosen]

Fatball said:

I’ve seen footage taken by one force of a HGV driver cooking beans on a gas stove while driving.

A professional driver that is successfully prosecuted for that type of driving offence and other such as mobile phone use etc should receive a months ban along with the points and the fine.

The Traffic Commissioner can revoke their vocational licence (so that they can't drive HGVs & therefore work) in addition to the points on licence & fine.

[Track Rod]

Fatball said:

I’ve seen footage taken by one force of a HGV driver cooking beans on a gas stove while driving.

A professional driver that is successfully prosecuted for that type of driving offence and other such as mobile phone use etc should receive a months ban along with the points and the fine.

Hope they issued him with a section 57

[nonsequitur]

Thesprucegoose said:

Commercial vehicles should have cell blockers. If you want to make a call it will only stop working when parked up.

Let's make that ALL vehicles.

[zarjaz1991]

nonsequitur said:

Thesprucegoose said:

Commercial vehicles should have cell blockers. If you want to make a call it will only stop working when parked up.

Let's make that ALL vehicles.

And hang anyone caught!
And their families!
Arrest without charge!
Unimaginable power!
Unlimited rice pudding!

[donkmeister]

rscott said:

Thesprucegoose said:

Commercial vehicles should have cell blockers. If you want to make a call it will only stop working when parked up.

Assume you mean blocking all data? Not sure that would go down well with all users of GPS telemetry systems.. Or vehicles with more than one crewmember...

Plus it would be unworkable in practice, unfortunately. Think how many HGVs you see with speed limiter defeat devices when away from the more populous areas.
On Mercedes cars it used to be very easy to use engineering mode to enable use of the TV on the move. Some time around 2010, for safety, they made it impossible without having a full-blown diagnostic system and I am not sure many people can be bothered...
However truckers spending day after day getting bored in their trucks, there would be hacks and workarounds available quicker than you can scoff down a Yorkie bar.

[anonymous-user]

Kawasicki said:

I decided to monitor what HGV drivers are up to. In 30 minutes of Autobahn travel I saw about 7 or 8 drivers using electronic devices on their steering wheels and 1 was reading a newspaper. We overtook maybe 30 trucks. The drivers seemed to look up every 2 to 3 seconds to make slight steering corrections.

How technology has moved on.

I used to stand on the Hard Shoulder many years ago watching the truckers go past in convoy with a newspaper spread over the steering wheel.

At least they had about a 20ft gap between them if it all went tits up and they had to put the paper down before before stopping.

Kawasicki said:

I'm surprised such accidents don't happen more frequently.

vonhosen said:

Fatball said:

I’ve seen footage taken by one force of a HGV driver cooking beans on a gas stove while driving.

A professional driver that is successfully prosecuted for that type of driving offence and other such as mobile phone use etc should receive a months ban along with the points and the fine.

The Traffic Commissioner can revoke their vocational licence (so that they can't drive HGVs & therefore work) in addition to the points on licence & fine.

That the case ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6764859.stm

Albeit this chap had his licence 'revoked', as he was from the Netherlands, I wonder if he was a long term resident given the "address" was HSF logistics. Given what goes on I'm surprised his address wasn't "The Cab, The Layby, England".

I wonder how the whole licencing thing works with foreign nationals and foreign trucks ?
Generally the trucks "operating centre's" would be overseas where the TC has no sway.

I suppose it keeps the Police CVU units and the card machine busy with the amount of outstanding fines they seem to collect.

[Kawasicki]

Agila b 6yr 6k said:

Kawasicki said:

I'm based in Germany. I took a bus 50km to the airport a few months ago.

Normally, like most, I drive a car.

I decided to monitor what HGV drivers are up to. In 30 minutes of Autobahn travel I saw about 7 or 8 drivers using electronic devices on their steering wheels and 1 was reading a newspaper. We overtook maybe 30 trucks. The drivers seemed to look up every 2 to 3 seconds to make slight steering corrections. There was no need for speed corrections as they were all driving speed limited trucks.

I'm surprised such accidents don't happen more frequently.

Maybe we should speed limit the trucks to 60 km/h? That would be safer.

Your solution to LGV drivers not looking at the road is to reduce truck speed limit to 60kph which is 37.28 mph????

Well yes, they are currently limited to 90kph which is 55.923 mph!!!

Slower is safer!

[chilistrucker]

Kawasicki said:

I'm based in Germany. I took a bus 50km to the airport a few months ago.

Normally, like most, I drive a car.

I decided to monitor what HGV drivers are up to. In 30 minutes of Autobahn travel I saw about 7 or 8 drivers using electronic devices on their steering wheels and 1 was reading a newspaper. We overtook maybe 30 trucks. The drivers seemed to look up every 2 to 3 seconds to make slight steering corrections. There was no need for speed corrections as they were all driving speed limited trucks.

I'm surprised such accidents don't happen more frequently.

Maybe we should speed limit the trucks to 60 km/h? That would be safer.

I'd agree in part....
I'd agree I am also surprised there are not more accidents in light of the way the way the trucking industry and trucks have evolved.
I for one point blank think the 60 km/h thing is a load of tosh, and would fail. It doesn't matter if the trucks are limited too 90kmh or 60kmh, if we are putting the same certain type of clown behind the wheel, the same accidents are going to happen, (ok i'll give you the speed dependent outcome would differ.)
I'm not trying to be an arse here, just giving an opinion.

I hope this doesn't come across as me being a bit of an arse, but here goes

I passed my then HGV licence, now LGV in 1993 when everything was much more mechanical. I did my first trip too Spain the following year in an Old Daf 95 with an 18 speed manual gearbox, and everything else in that truck was manual, windows, mirrors, the bloody lot. No mobile phone, no sat nav.
That's just how it was, but I cut my teeth on the job this way and am glad I did, as I like to think/hope it has made me a better driver in the long run.

Fast forward to todays modern world. I still drive trucks for a living and when I say drive I mean the way things have developed, I now just feel like I am a steering wheel attendant. The thing is I have learned to adjust, where as for certain drivers the modern world is all they know. These drivers fully expect and rely on devices such as full European Satnav's, as well as some type of hub/mobile device to keep them up to date with routing info, traffic, weather and the like.

I'm all for change and a lot of the changes have been beneficial to an old fart like myself. When I used to go away on a 3-4 month tour I'd have 1 giant storage box full of maps, and another full of C.D'S too keep me entertained on the long overnight drives. These days, all of that info would just be in my phone which is bloody great in terms of space, but lacking in other areas.

The only thing the advances in the trucking/automotive industry haven't taught me is common sense.
As long as the haulage industry and economy in general is driven by costs and profits, then certain things are going to be compromised and eventually fail.

Its all well and good getting a truck from point A too point B, in the shortest and most cost effective time, but at what point does this come at the cost of life?

[Kawasicki]

Chilistrucker, I was being provocative in my post... the 60kph limiter thing was to make a point that speed reduction seems to be the default solution to any road safety related issue.

“Slower is safer, everybody knows that.”

Whenever I bring the point up that speed limits can be so low that people stop concentrating properly, I get told that “well they shouldn’t be on the road then!”...as if that it somehow going to stop accidents through inattentive driving.

I think people can be guaranteed to only pay full attention if full attention is required. Too little demands makes people bored and they lose focus. Too much demands makes people tired and they also lose focus.

The balance is in the middle, as usual.