Legal help needed please!
Discussion
Hi there,
One day last September, my neighbour set fire to a pile of rubbish at the bottom of his garden. The fire spread, got out of control, and spread into my garden causing a huge amount of damage.
My own insurance doesn’t cover “outside space” therefore won’t get involved.
I made a liability claim direct with my neighbours insurance company, but they have now written to me saying they will no longer be involved in the claim and I should pursue the claim directly with my neighbour.
I’ve asked my neighbour to find out why the won’t get involved and they tell me it’s because they didn’t do anything wrong as a spark flew from the fire spreading it and therefore they were not negligent and it was just one of those things!
This seems so unfair as the costs for the garden damage are over £8000 with lost tools as well.
Any legal people out there know where I can go next. It seems very wrong that I’m left with a huge bill to put things right when I didn’t do anything?
Any help would be gratefully received 😊
One day last September, my neighbour set fire to a pile of rubbish at the bottom of his garden. The fire spread, got out of control, and spread into my garden causing a huge amount of damage.
My own insurance doesn’t cover “outside space” therefore won’t get involved.
I made a liability claim direct with my neighbours insurance company, but they have now written to me saying they will no longer be involved in the claim and I should pursue the claim directly with my neighbour.
I’ve asked my neighbour to find out why the won’t get involved and they tell me it’s because they didn’t do anything wrong as a spark flew from the fire spreading it and therefore they were not negligent and it was just one of those things!
This seems so unfair as the costs for the garden damage are over £8000 with lost tools as well.
Any legal people out there know where I can go next. It seems very wrong that I’m left with a huge bill to put things right when I didn’t do anything?
Any help would be gratefully received 😊
Moneyclaim online?
Pictures, evidence, quotes, proof of negligent... Fire on a Hot day? Mid summer? Fire close to fence? No hose pipe or any fire fighting equivilent? Insurance company advising pursue the homeowner etc etc
You'd trash your relationship with neighbour, unless that's already gone.
Pictures, evidence, quotes, proof of negligent... Fire on a Hot day? Mid summer? Fire close to fence? No hose pipe or any fire fighting equivilent? Insurance company advising pursue the homeowner etc etc
You'd trash your relationship with neighbour, unless that's already gone.
Andeh1 said:
Moneyclaim online?
Pictures, evidence, quotes, proof of negligent... Fire on a Hot day? Mid summer? Fire close to fence? No hose pipe or any fire fighting equivilent? Insurance company advising pursue the homeowner etc etc
You'd trash your relationship with neighbour, unless that's already gone.
I suspect best course of action is for him to go after neighbour and neighbour to go via the ombudsman to get insurance company to pay out. Pictures, evidence, quotes, proof of negligent... Fire on a Hot day? Mid summer? Fire close to fence? No hose pipe or any fire fighting equivilent? Insurance company advising pursue the homeowner etc etc
You'd trash your relationship with neighbour, unless that's already gone.
The neighbour is negligent. There’s no reason he needed to have a fire at the bottom of the garden, or to have a fire at all.
For £8k you should absolutely file a claim online. The fact that have presumably already spoken to him and he’s punted you off to his insurers suggests to me that he doesn’t feel responsible.
For £8k you should absolutely file a claim online. The fact that have presumably already spoken to him and he’s punted you off to his insurers suggests to me that he doesn’t feel responsible.
roadsmash said:
Something doesn’t seem right here.
Most buildings insurance policies cover some element of the garden... who are you insured with?
trust me if I could have gone through my own insurance and let them claim from neighbours I would. My insurance is with now4cover and apparently it seems I did not click for it to include my garden! I didn’t notice this at the time and to be honest I’m not sure I would have added it on as an extra anyway. Most buildings insurance policies cover some element of the garden... who are you insured with?
Absolutely no help to you but yet again another instance of the “umbrella on a sunny day” policy of insurers. I pay my premiums so cynically - I feel sure that should I need to claim I’ll also have “not ticked a box” somewhere that will also mean I’ll have no cover. It’s very frustrating.
Hope you get it sorted.
Hope you get it sorted.
Mildredthedog said:
and apparently it seems I did not click for it to include my garden! I didn’t notice this at the time and to be honest I’m not sure I would have added it on as an extra anyway.
Apparently!Read the policy definitions. Do you have a copy of the policy?
That's what counts, what the policy say's not "Apparently". That's an £8000 apparently!
A look at this may help understand the various legal principles at play here
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=12b...
IANAL but I was a Loss Adjuster for a while, in my experience insurance companies did not seek to recover their losses when a fire spread from an adjacent premises, the standard of proof to demonstrate negligence is very high
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=12b...
IANAL but I was a Loss Adjuster for a while, in my experience insurance companies did not seek to recover their losses when a fire spread from an adjacent premises, the standard of proof to demonstrate negligence is very high
N111BJG said:
A look at this may help understand the various legal principles at play here
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=12b...
IANAL but I was a Loss Adjuster for a while, in my experience insurance companies did not seek to recover their losses when a fire spread from an adjacent premises, the standard of proof to demonstrate negligence is very high
Was that when spread from an accidental house fire, or a deliberate fire?https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=12b...
IANAL but I was a Loss Adjuster for a while, in my experience insurance companies did not seek to recover their losses when a fire spread from an adjacent premises, the standard of proof to demonstrate negligence is very high
"Examples of situations where fire may be actionable under the principle are likely to be limited to cases where fire presents a high and foreseeable risk of damage if it escapes to adjoining property and has been deliberately or negligently started by the occupier" - from that article.
Edited by meatballs on Monday 17th February 22:04
I have experience of this although 14 years ago.
We were planning a BBQ in the garden and had it looking lovely. The weekend before I looked out of an upstairs window and admired how good the garden looked. However I noticed it appeared a neighbour was having a bonfire, which seemed odd as t had been very dry etc. So I popped down the garden to investigate further. Shouted over the fence but no answer. Whilst the gardens met the house wasnt next door but round the corner in a different street. So I called 999. The Fire Brigade arrived within 8 minutes. By that time the fence was alight, trees both sides of my garden were alight the fence was alight as was my shed and that of my neighbour.
The fire brigade put out the fire and the following weekend we had a BBQ in a fire ravaged open plan garden!
My insurance company, which was a well known brand but I cant recall which, covered my shed but would not cover plants and trees. Neighbours covered absolutely everything and he got a new pond, shed, patio etc.
It transpired the fire had been caused by the electric on the pond overheating due to a lack of water. My Insurance company said that they couldnt claim off him as he was not negligent so I had to pay the excess. I said hang on the fire was caused by the electrics over heating and he must of been negligent because he hadnt checked them and the pond. The water level in the pond had dropped causing them to overheat. I got my excess back but still didnt get plants replaced.
Having said that most of the plants recovered over time.
Personally I think that a spark from a bonfire may not be negligent, unless it was a very dry period.
We were planning a BBQ in the garden and had it looking lovely. The weekend before I looked out of an upstairs window and admired how good the garden looked. However I noticed it appeared a neighbour was having a bonfire, which seemed odd as t had been very dry etc. So I popped down the garden to investigate further. Shouted over the fence but no answer. Whilst the gardens met the house wasnt next door but round the corner in a different street. So I called 999. The Fire Brigade arrived within 8 minutes. By that time the fence was alight, trees both sides of my garden were alight the fence was alight as was my shed and that of my neighbour.
The fire brigade put out the fire and the following weekend we had a BBQ in a fire ravaged open plan garden!
My insurance company, which was a well known brand but I cant recall which, covered my shed but would not cover plants and trees. Neighbours covered absolutely everything and he got a new pond, shed, patio etc.
It transpired the fire had been caused by the electric on the pond overheating due to a lack of water. My Insurance company said that they couldnt claim off him as he was not negligent so I had to pay the excess. I said hang on the fire was caused by the electrics over heating and he must of been negligent because he hadnt checked them and the pond. The water level in the pond had dropped causing them to overheat. I got my excess back but still didnt get plants replaced.
Having said that most of the plants recovered over time.
Personally I think that a spark from a bonfire may not be negligent, unless it was a very dry period.
meatballs said:
N111BJG said:
A look at this may help understand the various legal principles at play here
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=12b...
IANAL but I was a Loss Adjuster for a while, in my experience insurance companies did not seek to recover their losses when a fire spread from an adjacent premises, the standard of proof to demonstrate negligence is very high
Was that when spread from an accidental house fire, or a deliberate fire?https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=12b...
IANAL but I was a Loss Adjuster for a while, in my experience insurance companies did not seek to recover their losses when a fire spread from an adjacent premises, the standard of proof to demonstrate negligence is very high
"Examples of situations where fire may be actionable under the principle are likely to be limited to cases where fire presents a high and foreseeable risk of damage if it escapes to adjoining property and has been deliberately or negligently started by the occupier" - from that article.
Edited by meatballs on Monday 17th February 22:04
It was the neighbours choice to a) start a fire and b) situate the fire in close proximity to the OP’s property. Given that neither of those decisions happened inadvertently one could surmise that the outcome meant one or both of them were negligent.
We’re not talking about a fire that started spontaneously or as the result of defective materials here.
We’re not talking about a fire that started spontaneously or as the result of defective materials here.
Thanks for that everyone.
The reason for the fire was to clear up a lot of household waste (as ordered from the council) and instead of getting a skip they decided to burn it. Very stupid idea in September after a dry summer.
My neighbour called around yesterday and said as the insurance company said they weren't to blame, they really believe I’m being unreasonable.
I showed them two quotations for rectifying the damage and they informed me that they could maybe pay a little towards the repairs, they don’t have any money so it won’t be much.
I’m seeing a solicitor next Tuesday to see how I move forward on this.
Once again, thanks
The reason for the fire was to clear up a lot of household waste (as ordered from the council) and instead of getting a skip they decided to burn it. Very stupid idea in September after a dry summer.
My neighbour called around yesterday and said as the insurance company said they weren't to blame, they really believe I’m being unreasonable.
I showed them two quotations for rectifying the damage and they informed me that they could maybe pay a little towards the repairs, they don’t have any money so it won’t be much.
I’m seeing a solicitor next Tuesday to see how I move forward on this.
Once again, thanks
I can't see how someone lighting a fire in such a way that it ends up spreading and causing a fire in a neighbour's garden is not negligent.
If I was lighting a fire in my garden I would make damn sure that it couldn't spread.
A flying spark or ember could definitely be foreseen, especially after a dry summer.
The neighbour's insurance company needs pursuing legally.
If I was lighting a fire in my garden I would make damn sure that it couldn't spread.
A flying spark or ember could definitely be foreseen, especially after a dry summer.
The neighbour's insurance company needs pursuing legally.
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