Emergency legislation - information and commentary
Discussion
Elysium said:
Big moment. We have found a policeman who understands the law and is willing to be honest about what it says:
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/yor...
Every PC in the country needs to see that interview - they could use up 3 mins of their own time and be better informed than many seem to be.https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/yor...
The interviewer looked dumbfounded - he clearly cant tell the difference between guidance and law - but he knows now
I see that Cypress is planning to open there doors to U.K. residents who have been fully inoculated for covid. They are opening there doors two weeks before our government plan to ‘allow’ foreign travel for holiday purposes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56289054
I’ve looked at the English SI a couple of times but still can’t see any support that specifically precludes foreign travel for holiday purposes, I wondered if I’m missing something in the SI’s and the government stance is just another case of passing off guidance as law?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56289054
I’ve looked at the English SI a couple of times but still can’t see any support that specifically precludes foreign travel for holiday purposes, I wondered if I’m missing something in the SI’s and the government stance is just another case of passing off guidance as law?
Captain_Morgan said:
I see that Cypress is planning to open there doors to U.K. residents who have been fully inoculated for covid. They are opening there doors two weeks before our government plan to ‘allow’ foreign travel for holiday purposes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56289054
I’ve looked at the English SI a couple of times but still can’t see any support that specifically precludes foreign travel for holiday purposes, I wondered if I’m missing something in the SI’s and the government stance is just another case of passing off guidance as law?
The "Only" thing it precludes is leaving or being away from your home without a reasonable excuse. It may be that you have to be able to show that your holiday is a reasonable excuse, in general, the government, enforcement and holiday companies seem to be taking the opposite position. You would also need to avoid a "Relevant person" who considers it isn't and then directs you to return home. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56289054
I’ve looked at the English SI a couple of times but still can’t see any support that specifically precludes foreign travel for holiday purposes, I wondered if I’m missing something in the SI’s and the government stance is just another case of passing off guidance as law?
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
You're not currently allowed to be away from home without reasonable excuse. I don't know if any other measures affect the legality of holidays?
I suspect you'd have to convince the court that a holiday abroad was a reasonable excuse.
well you cant have a holiday abroad without leaving the UK, I suspect you'd have to convince the court that a holiday abroad was a reasonable excuse.
You may want to exercise on the beech in Miami - again no law on keeping it local. Its legal in Florida to stay in a hotel.
superlightr said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
You're not currently allowed to be away from home without reasonable excuse. I don't know if any other measures affect the legality of holidays?
I suspect you'd have to convince the court that a holiday abroad was a reasonable excuse.
well you cant have a holiday abroad without leaving the UK, I suspect you'd have to convince the court that a holiday abroad was a reasonable excuse.
You may want to exercise on the beech in Miami - again no law on keeping it local. Its legal in Florida to stay in a hotel.
So you could travel abroad for work purposes and stay for a short break before returning. Or you could drive to carry out essential maintenance to a holiday home and stay for a week or so for leisure.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
You're not currently allowed to be away from home without reasonable excuse. I don't know if any other measures affect the legality of holidays?
I suspect you'd have to convince the court that a holiday abroad was a reasonable excuse.
Kinda what I suspected, I can understand why the government would be reluctant to define things such as local area etc but if they are specifically excluding something then it seems poor not to update the SI and include it.I suspect you'd have to convince the court that a holiday abroad was a reasonable excuse.
Otherwise I can envision cases where folk are fully inoculated traveling before the ban is lifted, returning post ban challenging the government’s assertion, with more cost and delays to the court system.
After all a inoculated individual traveling to a country who are welcoming holiday visitors does not seem unreasonable after checking the law to clarify if it expressly precluded does not seem unreasonable (to me)
Gman20 said:
You can't claim going on holiday is exercise just because you plan to exercise while there.
You could escape the country for work then turn it into a holiday, but not just by committing to doing a few press ups on a beach.
What’s the difference between that and driving to an exercise area, from a legal POV?You could escape the country for work then turn it into a holiday, but not just by committing to doing a few press ups on a beach.
garyhun said:
What’s the difference between that and driving to an exercise area, from a legal POV?
If you are going on holiday, you are going on holiday, that is the primary act even if you plan to do some push ups the moment the plane touches down it is a minor ancillary act and does not change the fact you are going on holiday.Work explicitly allowed, exercise is explicitly allowed, going on holiday is not.
If you were genuinely in a position where you were going to Florida specifically to exercise and that was the primary act it would be allowed but you've got little chance of convincing anyone it is not actually a holiday.
Gman20 said:
garyhun said:
What’s the difference between that and driving to an exercise area, from a legal POV?
If you are going on holiday, you are going on holiday, that is the primary act even if you plan to do some push ups the moment the plane touches down it is a minor ancillary act and does not change the fact you are going on holiday.Work explicitly allowed, exercise is explicitly allowed, going on holiday is not.
If you were genuinely in a position where you were going to Florida specifically to exercise and that was the primary act it would be allowed but you've got little chance of convincing anyone it is not actually a holiday.
Elysium said:
Gman20 said:
garyhun said:
What’s the difference between that and driving to an exercise area, from a legal POV?
If you are going on holiday, you are going on holiday, that is the primary act even if you plan to do some push ups the moment the plane touches down it is a minor ancillary act and does not change the fact you are going on holiday.Work explicitly allowed, exercise is explicitly allowed, going on holiday is not.
If you were genuinely in a position where you were going to Florida specifically to exercise and that was the primary act it would be allowed but you've got little chance of convincing anyone it is not actually a holiday.
Miami beech with a icecream in the sun would certainly help my mental health and exercise level - I would even say ill buy Elysium whatever icream or drink he wants when we raise a toast under the sun shade with our toes in the sand if I see him there .
superlightr said:
Elysium said:
Gman20 said:
garyhun said:
What’s the difference between that and driving to an exercise area, from a legal POV?
If you are going on holiday, you are going on holiday, that is the primary act even if you plan to do some push ups the moment the plane touches down it is a minor ancillary act and does not change the fact you are going on holiday.Work explicitly allowed, exercise is explicitly allowed, going on holiday is not.
If you were genuinely in a position where you were going to Florida specifically to exercise and that was the primary act it would be allowed but you've got little chance of convincing anyone it is not actually a holiday.
Miami beech with a icecream in the sun would certainly help my mental health and exercise level - I would even say ill buy Elysium whatever icream or drink he wants when we raise a toast under the sun shade with our toes in the sand if I see him there .
I do wonder if there would be any real difficulty in simply booking a plane ticket and heading to the airport. I am not sure there are any actual barriers to doing it and aside from the quarantine stuff, it doesn't seem as if anyone coming back the the UK is being challenged about their 'reasonable excuse' for leaving in the first place
The more you look into the the guidance and regulations around coronavirus, the more you realise that the foundations are built on shifting sands
garyhun said:
Gman20 said:
You can't claim going on holiday is exercise just because you plan to exercise while there.
You could escape the country for work then turn it into a holiday, but not just by committing to doing a few press ups on a beach.
What’s the difference between that and driving to an exercise area, from a legal POV?You could escape the country for work then turn it into a holiday, but not just by committing to doing a few press ups on a beach.
Elysium said:
Or you could drive to carry out essential maintenance to a holiday home and stay for a week or so for leisure.
You cant do that - I have looked at that carefully as I am currently doing essential maintenance on a holiday home. The leisure break whilst you are there is the bit that's not permitted, preparing a property for sale or let is expressly permitted.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff