Working hours

[moonigan]

Use this opportuntity to start working for herself and go mobile. Lots of demand at the moment with people being cautious about venturing into towns and shops. She could have a word in each of the clients ear to let them know her intentions and hit the ground running. My wife did it years ago and never looked back.

[syl]

gazza285 said:

Forget the working time directive, which basically says you cannot work more than forty eight hours a week, unless you want to.

My advice? Tell her to go mobile, I know a few that have, they are all happier, and also better off.

Whilst they may opt out of the maximum 48 hours per week (averaged over 17 weeks) they still must be given a rest break if the working day exceeds six hours and they cannot work for more than 13 hours a day. They must also have 24 hours continuous rest a week (or 48 hours a fortnight).

Being forced to work 7 days a week for the next 2-3 weeks isn't going to be compliant.

[Pegscratch]

syl said:

They must also have 24 hours continuous rest a week (or 48 hours a fortnight).

Being forced to work 7 days a week for the next 2-3 weeks isn't going to be compliant.

Being offered/entitled to and must take are different things, but it is a good negotiation point. Missed that, as I've never religiously held people to having a day off.

[gazza285]

syl said:

gazza285 said:

Forget the working time directive, which basically says you cannot work more than forty eight hours a week, unless you want to.

My advice? Tell her to go mobile, I know a few that have, they are all happier, and also better off.

Whilst they may opt out of the maximum 48 hours per week (averaged over 17 weeks) they still must be given a rest break if the working day exceeds six hours and they cannot work for more than 13 hours a day. They must also have 24 hours continuous rest a week (or 48 hours a fortnight).

Being forced to work 7 days a week for the next 2-3 weeks isn't going to be compliant.

Do not confuse the right to with must. They are entitled to a break, but do not have to take it, they can work for more than thirteen hours if they want to, and same with the twenty four and forty eight hours continuous rest, if they want to work then they can.

The employer can ask, but the employee has the right to say yes as well as no.

[benm3evo]

gazza285 said:

Do not confuse the right to with must. They are entitled to a break, but do not have to take it, they can work for more than thirteen hours if they want to, and same with the twenty four and forty eight hours continuous rest, if they want to work then they can.

The employer can ask, but the employee has the right to say yes as well as no.

This is the way I saw it. But, if she does politely refuse to say no as she wants a day off then, being zero hours, her boss could just say Ok bye, I'll find someone that does want to work etc etc.

If the above is the case, I think it's unlikely he will do that to her but we'll see how 'negotations' go on Saturday.

Cheers,
Ben

[syl]

gazza285 said:

Do not confuse the right to with must. They are entitled to a break, but do not have to take it, they can work for more than thirteen hours if they want to, and same with the twenty four and forty eight hours continuous rest, if they want to work then they can.

The employer can ask, but the employee has the right to say yes as well as no.

"Article 5 of the EWTD states that a worker may agree with their employer not to apply the limit of 48 hours per week to that worker. This also requires employers to keep a list of which workers have opted out, of how long they have opted out for and how many hours they are working.
This does not exempt the worker from the rest requirements in the legislation or in their contract, nor does it exempt them from the hours limits in their contract."

[gazza285]

syl said:

"Article 5 of the EWTD states that a worker may agree with their employer not to apply the limit of 48 hours per week to that worker. This also requires employers to keep a list of which workers have opted out, of how long they have opted out for and how many hours they are working.
This does not exempt the worker from the rest requirements in the legislation or in their contract, nor does it exempt them from the hours limits in their contract."

I know, the worker retains the right to choose.

[RyanOPlasty]

Working 11 hours a day every day for two or three weeks is not going to work. After a few days, the quality of output will fall, and the employer may end up with dissatisfied customers.

[gazza285]

RyanOPlasty said:

Working 11 hours a day every day for two or three weeks is not going to work. After a few days, the quality of output will fall, and the employer may end up with dissatisfied customers.

Have you ever done it?

Rolling twelve hour shifts are not uncommon in engineering, we have regularly done twelve hour days and nights for months at a time, with one weekend in three off. You soon get into the routine.

[caley64]

Remember to bear in mind the extra hours worked when she takes her next leave. Using the average hours worked over previous 12 weeks to calculate holiday pay entitlement.

[donkmeister]

Bit off tangent, but putting aside the obvious concerns of exhaustion and covid... Would you want a haircut from someone who has just worked 20 11-hour days, back to back, after several months with no practice? Best case scenario is that you get a wonky do.

OP, please encourage your better half to take pictures of any hilarious f&£#ed up haircuts along the way.

[anonymous-user]

gazza285 said:

RyanOPlasty said:

Working 11 hours a day every day for two or three weeks is not going to work. After a few days, the quality of output will fall, and the employer may end up with dissatisfied customers.

Have you ever done it?

Rolling twelve hour shifts are not uncommon in engineering, we have regularly done twelve hour days and nights for months at a time, with one weekend in three off. You soon get into the routine.

Not for 5 days a week? Where I work and the sample of 5/6 other companies I know, 12 hour shifts for 4 days followed by either 4 or 6 days off, if followed by 4 then an 18 day break will be in there too.

5 days / 12 hour shifts isn’t a complaint shift pattern.

[gazza285]

Lord.Vader said:

gazza285 said:

RyanOPlasty said:

Working 11 hours a day every day for two or three weeks is not going to work. After a few days, the quality of output will fall, and the employer may end up with dissatisfied customers.

Have you ever done it?

Rolling twelve hour shifts are not uncommon in engineering, we have regularly done twelve hour days and nights for months at a time, with one weekend in three off. You soon get into the routine.

Not for 5 days a week? Where I work and the sample of 5/6 other companies I know, 12 hour shifts for 4 days followed by either 4 or 6 days off, if followed by 4 then an 18 day break will be in there too.

5 days / 12 hour shifts isn’t a complaint shift pattern.

Nineteen days on, two days off, 84 hours a week. The only thing it is not compliant with is recommendations, there is nothing in law to prevent me from working those hours if I so desire.

[anonymous-user]

So as I said it’s not a standard pattern, you actually opt to work that many hours.

You need to get out more and enjoy life, working 84 hours a week plus, let’s say, 6 hours sleep per night leaves you 42 hours per week to live (minus commute), is that really how you want to spend your life?!

4 days a week and never more than 40 hours including lunch and commuting for me, unless I’m working in the US / SA.

[gazza285]

Lord.Vader said:

So as I said it’s not a standard pattern, you actually opt to work that many hours.

You need to get out more and enjoy life, working 84 hours a week plus, let’s say, 6 hours sleep per night leaves you 42 hours per week to live (minus commute), is that really how you want to spend your life?!

4 days a week and never more than 40 hours including lunch and commuting for me, unless I’m working in the US / SA.

I was in digs, so no commute, no family life, no social life. Earn as much as you can, then have a month or two off, before doing it all again. Not all my jobs are like that, I was earning enough at one job to be on four days, and taking one week a month off, and still paid my mortgage off in eighteen month.

[syl]

gazza285 said:

I know, the worker retains the right to choose.

You’re right, the worker can chose what he/she likes, however the employer will be breaking the law whatever the worker’s choice even if he/she has signed an opt-out in triplicate.

[GT03ROB]

Leaving aside the legality... to be honest with the economy in the crapper & liable to be there for the forseeable future ....having not earned for the last few months..... I'd be jumping at the opportunity to get a few quid in the bank even if it meant doing some long shifts & not getting days off for a few weeks.

[gazza285]

syl said:

gazza285 said:

I know, the worker retains the right to choose.

You’re right, the worker can chose what he/she likes, however the employer will be breaking the law whatever the worker’s choice even if he/she has signed an opt-out in triplicate.

What law is that then?

[syl]

gazza285 said:

What law is that then?

The Working Time Regulations 1998
The Working Time (Amendment) Regulations 2003

29.—(1) An employer who fails to comply with any of the relevant requirements shall be guilty of an offence.

The employer must give the worker the entitlement to the rest break, whether or not the employee choses to take it.

[gazza285]

syl said:

gazza285 said:

What law is that then?

The Working Time Regulations 1998
The Working Time (Amendment) Regulations 2003

29.—(1) An employer who fails to comply with any of the relevant requirements shall be guilty of an offence.

The employer must give the worker the entitlement to the rest break, whether or not the employee choses to take it.

That is what I have been saying, the employee has the choice. What law will the employer be breaking if the worker chooses not to have a break or day off?

syl said:

You’re right, the worker can chose what he/she likes, however the employer will be breaking the law whatever the worker’s choice even if he/she has signed an opt-out in triplicate.