How enforceable is a will?

[randlemarcus]

Breadvan72 said:

You perhaps missed the opening three words of my previous post.

Out of curiousity, does the separation of the legal systems continue on into barrister land, or are you guys so very good at arguing that you can practise in the colonies?

[anonymous-user]

I can appear in courts in England, Wales, most of the Eastern Caribbean, and the Cayman Islands, but not in Scotland, where barristers are called Advocates. I also do some work in Jersey but am not an Advocate there.

[Ayahuasca]

Reminds me of when I worked for a UK private bank. As well as looking after clients money, we also took will instructions (the horror, the horror). In my boss’ office was an oil painting of a dog, a small terrier. On enquiring about it I was informed that a rich old dear had left a substantial part of her estate for the benefit of her dog. My boss (since passed on, but a very old school banker) rather than complying with her wishes, took the dog to the vets and had it put down. The renaming family gave him the painting.

[anonymous-user]

Ayahuasca said:

Reminds me of when I worked for a UK private bank. As well as looking after clients money, we also took will instructions (the horror, the horror). In my boss’ office was an oil painting of a dog, a small terrier. On enquiring about it I was informed that a rich old dear had left a substantial part of her estate for the benefit of her dog. My boss (since passed on, but a very old school banker) rather than complying with her wishes, took the dog to the vets and had it put down. The renaming family gave him the painting.

You aren't improving people's opinions of bankers with stories like that 😄

[matchmaker]

Breadvan72 said:

I was only commenting on English law.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 26th October 13:31

I know, BV, but I thought that some might be interested in my small snippet of information!

[anonymous-user]

In English law, a bequest to a pet itself is invalid, but such a bequest can take effect by way of a trust - one of the rare category of non charitable purpose trusts that is upheld.

[anonymous-user]

matchmaker said:

Breadvan72 said:

I was only commenting on English law.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 26th October 13:31

I know, BV, but I thought that some might be interested in my small snippet of information!

Scots law is often more civilised than English law.

[Andeh1]

Breadvan72 said:

Andeh1 said:

What would happen if the coin was never found? Or if it was lost in the house empty?

What if it was tucked away quietly, let him fight & pressure for it, then if it ever got too serious mysteriously come across it in emptying her loft. I wonder what would come of it...

This forum regularly demonstrates that at least one half of all PH'ers are dishonest chancers. Is it a car thing that causes this?

Sorry, I do hang my head in shame! I just hate the sort of situation OP describes when the party doing the work in supporting a family member before & after death gets stuffed by the party who did sod all except claim their side of the 'free money' on offer.

[Paul Dishman]

Yonks ago we had a regular patient who lived in a small block of flats just around the corner from work. She passed away around 4pm one afternoon- we'd had a visit from a district nurse who called in to drop off some Controlled Drugs for disposal rather than leave them in the flat. We closed at 5.30 pm and on walking around the corner came across several relatives walking away from the flat with items of furniture. Our old dear must literally have still been warm.

[Sheepshanks]

Andeh1 said:

Sorry, I do hang my head in shame! I just hate the sort of situation OP describes when the party doing the work in supporting a family member before & after death gets stuffed by the party who did sod all except claim their side of the 'free money' on offer.

To be fair, the OPs 'complaint' is that his brother is being annoying by not claiming his share!

[Osinjak]

Ugh, without going into all the sordid details of my miscreant sibling the sooner I can offload his crap the better for all concerned, we can then get on with our respective lives.

[anonymous-user]

Look at section 12 of and Schedule 1 to the Torts (Interference With Goods) Act 1977.

[Osinjak]

Breadvan72 said:

Look at section 12 of and Schedule 1 to the Torts (Interference With Goods) Act 1977.

Useful read that - thanks. When he disowned his family some years ago he had some expensive camera equipment that I had loaned him that I subsequently asked him to return. Radio silence. Repeated texts and emails went unanswered (pointless calling him, he never picked up the phone) and in the end I threatened him with legal action. It was a complete bluff, I had no idea what recourse I had to 'legal action' but boy did that get a reaction. Called me all the names under the sun, privately and on bloody Facebook of all things. I eventually got most of my stuff back but I just wrote the rest of it off, it just wasn't worth it. What is it with people?

[HootersGsy]

The Moose said:

I’ve always thought it bizarre that people won’t talk about what’s in their will before they pop their clogs. That way, there should be no confusion and one less reason for greedy kids to be pissy at each other.

Indeed. When I was 30(ish) my dad and I sat down and went through my parents will (they were c. 55 at the time), he explained most stuff was to be split 50:50 with my sister, except a few particular items but given that I have had a significantly more successful career than my sister they expect me to ensure she is looked after, which of course I would always have done regardless. I am also the executor and have POA should they go doolally so it was quite an important conversation. My dad being the organised fellow he is also told me where all of his passwords are written down so I can access anything I need once he has gone.

I fully intend to have a similar conversation with my children, though not for a few years yet as only one is barely able to say "will" let alone understand what it means!

[Drawweight]

My 2 daughters know that my estate (for what it is) is split between them. They also know of the existence of a folder with details of where they can find everything related to that.

Completely unrelated but when my FiL died he left a small sum of money to his 3 grandchildren (only a couple of grand each). However there wasn’t enough cash in the estate to pay them out and the payment therefore shouldn’t have been made.
There was a house which was to be divided between my wife and her 2 brothers but of course this shouldn’t have been used to fund the payments to the grandchildren.
But..only my wife had properly read and understood the terms of the will and she kind of intimated to her brothers that the grandchildren were entitled to the money after the house was sold. Neither of them ever investigated properly and so the bequest was paid out.
Not strictly legal but it was what the old guy had wanted.

[Pro Bono]

Breadvan72 said:

1. In English law, if spouses jointly own property, the surviving spouse becomes the sole owner of the property on the death of the other spouse. The property does not become part of the estate of the dead spouse. This is called the right of survivorship.

It should, perhaps be made clear that this only applies if the property is owned as joint tenants. If it's owned as tenants in common then the deceased's share in the property does form part of their estate, and can be disposed of by their will.

Although most spouses do own as joint tenants there are quite a few who don't. Prior to 2007, when it became possible to transfer the inheritance tax nil rate band between spouses, a lot of joint tenancies were severed (i.e. converted into tenancies-in-common) to avoid wasting one spouse's nil-rate band. Many of those properties are still owned by the spouses as tenants-in-common simply because nobody has given it any thought since the law was changed.

[wisbech]

My FIL knew that his kids would get nasty over the will.

So, he gave everything away while he was still alive, as he saw fit. Basically - the lawyers told him that gifts could not be challenged legally, but a will could (this is in Indonesia, where the sons could, and would, have argued that the will wasn't in line with Islamic inheritance rules, that ISTR give double the portion to sons than daughters)

[anonymous-user]

wisbech said:

My FIL knew that his kids would get nasty over the will.

So, he gave everything away while he was still alive, as he saw fit. Basically - the lawyers told him that gifts could not be challenged legally, but a will could (this is in Indonesia, where the sons could, and would, have argued that the will wasn't in line with Islamic inheritance rules, that ISTR give double the portion to sons than daughters)

I have a multi-jurisdictional case on at the moment that involves a conflict between common law and Sharia law inheritance rules. Sharia law does indeed treat sons more favourably than daughters, and it also requires that part of every estate be paid to charity. The estate in question is hyper-mega-enormo huge, and the fight between the rellies is bitter and lengthy.

[stitched]

Breadvan72 said:

wisbech said:

My FIL knew that his kids would get nasty over the will.

So, he gave everything away while he was still alive, as he saw fit. Basically - the lawyers told him that gifts could not be challenged legally, but a will could (this is in Indonesia, where the sons could, and would, have argued that the will wasn't in line with Islamic inheritance rules, that ISTR give double the portion to sons than daughters)

I have a multi-jurisdictional case on at the moment that involves a conflict between common law and Sharia law inheritance rules. Sharia law does indeed treat sons more favourably than daughters, and it also requires that part of every estate be paid to charity. The estate in question is hyper-mega-enormo huge, and the fight between the rellies is bitter and lengthy.

Curious,
Does sharia law have any relevance in the U.K.?
Or is it only relevant in countries which recognise it?

[wisbech]

stitched said:

Curious,
Does sharia law have any relevance in the U.K.?
Or is it only relevant in countries which recognise it?

Well, it does in that an islamic person in the UK may wish to write their will to be sharia compliant... But, it wouldn't be grounds to challenge a will if someone split assets equally between son and daughter, if the estate belonged to a muslim.